Beare 0 Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 I know. That post kind of rubbed me the wrong way. Basically said, "I am a highly decorated professional design snob who doesn't agree with logo contests but I compromised my principles to win a free trip to Vegas."I will say, however, that I never agreed with the forum elitists that think that "newbies" should be excluded from things like the logo contest and the fantasy pool just because they haven't spent hours typing about Krablar and whether they'd "hit" Annie Duke. Let me just say you're all damn lucky I joined too late to participate and I'll stand by that statement provided no special consideration and extension is made on my behalf.Oh ya...heck yeah, I'd hit on Annie Duke given the opportunity. Link to post Share on other sites
rlebow 0 Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 May the best design win. Link to post Share on other sites
Governator 54 Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Your not the only "professional designer" on this board my friend, you may very well have won "International Awards" and whatnot but that doesn't make you any greater of a designer then other professionals on this board.I too am a creative director here in Toronto, you don't have an edge like you say, there are several well rounded professional designers on this forum & at this stage it's anyones game. "Professional" is a loose term that simply means one makes a living in the industry but it doesn't make you the best in the business.On a sidenote, welcome to the board. Link to post Share on other sites
rlebow 0 Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 May the best design win. Link to post Share on other sites
rlebow 0 Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 By the way,Living in Toronto,have you checked out InternationalPokerTours.com? Daniel is affiliated with it...(I met him at one of their tournaments about a month ago). It is one hell of a way to practice. Just like being in a Casino environment....dealers and all. There's a new venue/tournament tonight downtown (Queen and Yonge area). You should definitely check it out. Link to post Share on other sites
gadjet 11 Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Oh man, you are quite the jackass...A. The loyal thing was just a little shot because you're coming across like a self-righteous pomp. DN is the one who said Loyal, it's his forum and he can define it however he pleases, it's not up to you to question the origins of the word... but if I were DN I'd probably say... to me Loyal means anyone but rlebow... B. In response to:"Hey, I never once mentioned that my logo is the best. I simply stated the awards just to let you know that although I'm against such contests, THIS prize enticed me enough to take a shot at it."So basically you're just saying you support the high moral standards within your field and stand alongside your fellow designers in an effort to not cheapen the industry, but you're more than willing to compromise those standards and screw over the fellow designers with which you stand if the price for you is right.... sounds good to me... someone should give you an international award for that...on a sidenote welcome to the forum.P.S. I don't want to start an all-out flame war so I'm not going to continue this, my piece is said. I love this logo competition thread and don't want to derail it... let's see some more submissions! Link to post Share on other sites
KidKanuck 0 Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Your not the only "professional designer" on this board my friend' date=' you may very well have won "International Awards" and whatnot but that doesn't make you any greater of a designer then other professionals on this board.I guess' date=' from your philosophy, winning the WSOP several times over doesn't make one any greater a poker player than anybody else either.[/quote'']with all due respect...how do you measure a subjective field like design....is it awards? Well does that mean Titanic is the best film ever?Maybe it should be money made in the profession?Maybe it should be high profile jobs in the profession?It would be difficult to have a measuring stick...which is the point of many of the posters. Link to post Share on other sites
Royal_Tour 0 Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Well I'm going to add my own professional smack.I see he has edited his posts, but non-the less., coming from World automotive design finalist, Decoma International runner-up, etc... awards mean sweet dick.Let me remind you that 1 of the most recognizable symbols, logos, branded icons, is NIKE,, designed in 1972 by a student for 35 bucks.I think its safe to say, that this logo design competition has helped bring a lot of fresh excitement into the air at FCP. Link to post Share on other sites
rlebow 0 Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Okay, so I have edited all my posts to reflect what I believe.....May the best design win.As for your question, working as a professional designer is all about the awards that you win. Awards allow you to charge more, awards get you higher paying, more prestigious positions with design firms/agencies, and have clients/headhunters seeking you out. Which in turn, gets you a huge salary. So to answer all your questions, yes, awards mean everything. As for many industries, this is the case. Take a look at Hollywood, winning an Oscar gets you to the top of the A-list. As for Titanic, some would argue that because it won so many Oscars, it IS the best film ever made (Personally, I prefer it's contender "Ben-Hur"). If it wasn't for competition in many industries etc. Daniel would be just another guy that enjoys and makes money playing Poker, and you wouldn't be on his website hoping for a chance to fly down and meet him. Once again....May the best design win. Link to post Share on other sites
rlebow 0 Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 So basically you're just saying you support the high moral standards within your field and stand alongside your fellow designers in an effort to not cheapen the industry, but you're more than willing to compromise those standards and screw over the fellow designers with which you stand if the price for you is right.... sounds good to me... someone should give you an international award for that...Hey...I'm in advertising...I sold out a long time ago. Link to post Share on other sites
rlebow 0 Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Let me remind you that 1 of the most recognizable symbols, logos, branded icons, is NIKE,, designed in 1972 by a student for 35 bucks.You failed to mention.....who later went on to sue Nike and win MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of dollars in royalties.As for whatever award is it that you won, it meant sweet dick because winning an award means nothing unless you have a good press release to go along with it. You have to take the fact that you won and make sure everybody knows about it. Everyone associated with your industry etc., Trade magazines, clients, newspapers, websites, etc. The phone calls, job offers, and emails will then start pouring in. Link to post Share on other sites
JadeTiger 0 Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Thats a poor argument for Titantic...I mean in any given year you could have a competitive field of movies to contend against, or a weak field of movies to contend with. Just because the year Titantic came out, it won a lot of awards could mean that it was just up against weak competition and that year it WAS the best. You can't make that argument over a history line though. For instance, if LoTR was made the same year Titanic was, who do you think would win more? Im just throwing this out for argument sake. I personally think design means nothing unless someone needs it. Like the example about Nike. Nike uses the simplistic symbol because it is so diverse. If you look at the major companies in the world, all of their logos are not design genius, they are fairly plain and boring yet they are successful and versatile. Designing a logo that looks cool, is relative to what your product is. Thats why so of these poker sites look absolutely bloated with the way they are designed and why I think simplistic is better, and apparently DN thinks the same thing with the way his site is now. I know I am starting to talk out of my ass now so I will stop...design is in the eye of the beholder. Link to post Share on other sites
Royal_Tour 0 Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Let me remind you that 1 of the most recognizable symbols, logos, branded icons, is NIKE,, designed in 1972 by a student for 35 bucks.You failed to mention.....who later went on to sue Nike and win MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of dollars in royalties.As for whatever award is it that you won, it meant sweet dick because winning an award means nothing unless you have a good press release to go along with it. You have to take the fact that you won and make sure everybody knows about it. Everyone associated with your industry etc., Trade magazines, clients, newspapers, websites, etc. The phone calls and emails will then start pouring in.Do you honestly even understand how hurting the canadian design field is??Designers dont need to strike out against "logo competitions". if anything. most designers compete in these in their spare time for extra cash.I freelance all the time. technically i freelance for a ridiculously low price, so i can guarantee extra side jobs.. and why not in my opinion. I could care less if i'm taking jobs away from large production firms.why?? because it is such a huge industry where competition is everywhere. And client loyalty is a huge factor. also product and portfolio. Awards are one thing. But being known for the company to design the first snowboard helmet for burton.. thats completely different, and in my opinion, much more valuable then winning awards. Link to post Share on other sites
rlebow 0 Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 If you look at the major companies in the world, all of their logos are not design genius, they are fairly plain and boring .You think?The top 3 most recognized logos in the world are these three in order...Coca-ColaMarlboroBudweiserPlain and boring?...design is in the eye of the beholder.I agree. Which leads me back to my first post. There's no point posting all the logos for everyone to vote.It's all up to what Daniel thinks is the best look he wants to convey for himself. Link to post Share on other sites
Royal_Tour 0 Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 If you look at the major companies in the world, all of their logos are not design genius, they are fairly plain and boring .You think?The top 3 most recognized logos in the world are these three in order...Coca-ColaMarlboroBudweiserf.McDonalds is actually the most world wide known symbol. or whatever u wanna call it. The golden M of the Mcdonald brothers, but thats neither here nor there Link to post Share on other sites
JadeTiger 0 Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 apart from Budweiser those 3 designs are VERY simplistic. Marlboro is the most simplistic, two colors (black and red), no curves, and a serifed font. Coca-Cola is simple as well. I mean its in a unique cursive, but other than that, there is much to it. Two colors again. The budweiser is very unique and complex, but that is an exception. Look at the other big companies.MicrosoftIBM3MMcDonald'sAppleI could go on, but there doesnt seem to be a point. Companies thrive on simplistic symbols that are versatile. Nike, Reebok, New Balance, Gap, etc etc. The list goes on. Link to post Share on other sites
Royal_Tour 0 Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 apart from Budweiser those 3 designs are VERY simplistic. Marlboro is the most simplistic, two colors (black and red), no curves, and a serifed font. Coca-Cola is simple as well. I mean its in a unique cursive, but other than that, there is much to it. Two colors again. The budweiser is very unique and complex, but that is an exception. Look at the other big companies.MicrosoftIBM3MMcDonald'sAppleI could go on, but there doesnt seem to be a point. Companies thrive on simplistic symbols that are versatile. Nike, Reebok, New Balance, Gap, etc etc. The list goes on.exactly!..great points. and thats why the Apples from Macintosh works so well. u dont even need to think twice Link to post Share on other sites
rlebow 0 Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Designers dont need to strike out against "logo competitions". if anything. most designers compete in these in their spare time for extra cash.REALLY? Thousands of Canadian designers will disagree with you as to the thousands that protested the Olympic logo competiton....http://www.gdc.net/community/news.php?id=2...aw_column=3:1:2I freelance all the time. technically i freelance for a ridiculously low price, so i can guarantee extra side jobs.. and why not in my opinion. I could care less if i'm taking jobs away from large production firms.This is what is killing our industry. If you didn't charge so little, people wouldn't think there's no value in design. Why would somebody pay $5000 for a logo if you are willing to do it for next to nothing?Truthfully, the more I raise my rates, the more work I get and the more clients take me seriously.Big businesses don't mind paying the fees. The last thing you ever want to do is be "the Cheap Guy". That is how you will get branded. Put it this way....You have to do 20 projects to make the money you could make on one project.. So you're slaving away instead of out on the golf course. Those of us that make huge money in this industry understand this. I have a buddy (very well known logo designer) who charges 10 Grand USD a logo. He is absolutley swamped with work. People seek him out. If he charges that much, he must be good. Unfortunately, you haven't learned the game. Link to post Share on other sites
JadeTiger 0 Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 heres more:CNNESPNABCCBSNBCGMChevroletFordJohnson & JohnsonVISAMastercardblah blah blah Link to post Share on other sites
JadeTiger 0 Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 seems to me you buddy is a bit more talented than you give him credit. You mean he gets more business and people pay high prices simply because he CHARGES more!? Well than sign me up...ill draw you circle with a line through it and call it a logo for 7,000 bucks! any takers? Link to post Share on other sites
JadeTiger 0 Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 how could i forget...EBay and Google!!! they are just alternating colored fonts!!!and of course FedEx and Yahoo, and the list GOES ON AND ON!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
rlebow 0 Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 McDonalds is actually the most world wide known symbol. or whatever u wanna call it. McDonalds is not in the top 3. There are many countries without McDonalds. Some guy in Katmandu or Sierra Leone is not eating McDonalds. But he is smoking Marlies and drinking Bud...and probably now wearing a Nike baseball cap. I've worked on several of McDonald's competitor's accounts (Burger King etc.) and we were always given figures on the competition. It's not as big as you think. It will make the top list shortly though. Link to post Share on other sites
Governator 54 Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Enough freakin' arguing for one day... this is becoming more of an ego thread if anything... lets all shut up... and play nice. Link to post Share on other sites
JadeTiger 0 Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 And...SonyIntelnokiaHershey'sLorealPanteneCrestColgateBoy, there are a lot...stop me when you get the point! Link to post Share on other sites
rlebow 0 Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 seems to me you buddy is a bit more talented than you give him credit. You mean he gets more business and people pay high prices simply because he CHARGES more!? ....that, and he wins a ton of awards...which was my point from the beginning. Link to post Share on other sites
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