Babying 613 Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 My guess are Senator fans are not as passionate as Canadiens or Leafs. Let's just look at Buffalo. The rink is in a very ugly area of Buffalo and it is 2 hours from Toronto but the rink is packed full of Leaf fans. I know I will continue to go to Buffalo. I love the Leafs atmosphere Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted April 29, 2017 Author Share Posted April 29, 2017 My guess are Senator fans are not as passionate as Canadiens or Leafs. Let's just look at Buffalo. The rink is in a very ugly area of Buffalo and it is 2 hours from Toronto but the rink is packed full of Leaf fans. I know I will continue to go to Buffalo. I love the Leafs atmosphere I would say that's a pretty reasonable assumption. Did people think they were? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Link to post Share on other sites
Babying 613 Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 I would say that's a pretty reasonable assumption. Did people think they were? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Just saying because the rink is Kanata is the reason why fans don't go should not be an issue. The drive is not bad. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted April 29, 2017 Author Share Posted April 29, 2017 Just saying because the rink is Kanata is the reason why fans don't go should not be an issue. The drive is not bad. Right. But you're wrong that it doesn't have any impact. And also that it isn't bad. Link to post Share on other sites
gruven 530 Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 I bet you that, if the ACC was halfway to Barrie, a lot of the bay streeter season ticket holders would be represented by empty seats if they had to make that commute to watch a game. Which is not to say there aren't a million rabid fans who would take their tickets and make that drive in a heartbeat, but location is definitely a factor in empty seat land. Link to post Share on other sites
Babying 613 Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 Right. But you're wrong that it doesn't have any impact. And also that it isn't bad. Than why is Buffalo full of Leaf fans for a game? It is my opinion that it should have not have any impact since I don't think the drive is not that bad so why am I wrong? Link to post Share on other sites
iBeaver 409 Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 Than why is Buffalo full of Leaf fans for a game? It is my opinion that it should have not have any impact since I don't think the drive is not that bad so why am I wrong? Because you don't live there and go through the hassle the people do? I decided to go reading in Google and a lot of the articles based around the new stadium had people saying that the trips to Katana were a big deterrence to and they look forward to getting to a send game without the hassle it is now. No offense Wayne but I'll take the word over people who live there over yours in this case. Also it's been said that the drive is not the only issue but one of many. Link to post Share on other sites
Babying 613 Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 Because you don't live there and go through the hassle the people do? I decided to go reading in Google and a lot of the articles based around the new stadium had people saying that the trips to Katana were a big deterrence to and they look forward to getting to a send game without the hassle it is now. No offense Wayne but I'll take the word over people who live there over yours in this case. Also it's been said that the drive is not the only issue but one of many. Than explain to me why a ton of leaf fans make the drive to Buffalo. I have made the trip many times I personally found the drive not an issue when I drove from downtown Ottawa going home. Gps took me by Kanata and I thought what that is it? I guess Ottawa should have made the rink near bike lanes than there would be no issues. Link to post Share on other sites
gruven 530 Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 Than explain to me why a ton of leaf fans make the drive to Buffalo. I have made the trip many times I personally found the drive not an issue when I drove from downtown Ottawa going home. Gps took me by Kanata and I thought what that is it? I guess Ottawa should have made the rink near bike lanes than there would be no issues. because leaf fans only make the drive a couple of times a year. And let's be realistic, while there my be 30% leaf fans in buffalo, it's not all of them. Would 19,000 people make the driv from Toronto to buffalo for every home game? My bet is there would be plenty who would skip games here and there. And you're also comparing apples and oranges. Sens tix are far more available than leaf tix. If you can't get or can't afford a 250 ticket for the ACC, you might drive to buffalo. But regardless, the drive to kanata is shite. My ex lived in Gloucester and that was a hellacious commute. Link to post Share on other sites
Fenxis 99 Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 No, there's a lot of apathy. I'm *hoping* that moving downtown puts the team more in the minds of the locals. Right now, quite literally out of sight/out of mind. They were pretty passionate in the cup finals run, weren't they? Sens Mile and all that? Before I moved to Ottawa. The cup run years there was those rally flags on every 3rd car -- this year not so much. See people out in the west end with jerseys on game day. Apathy is probably from a million things like the Medez article mentioned -- general dislike of the ownership and the team doesn't have an identity to get behind. Sometimes it feels like Karlsson and a bunch of journeymen. Another thing is with all of the Canada 2017 celebrations something is going on all of the time so there's a time / money factor but really no excuse. Link to post Share on other sites
Fenxis 99 Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 I just wrote up like a 10 paragraph post and then Chrome crashed, so **** it. The drive is shit. There's nothing within 2.5 km of the arena in terms of food, drink, anything. This mean everyone drives there at the same time, everyone leaves at the same time. Driving there you have to fight commuter traffic. Unless you leave at 3:00, which I've done before, but of course, once you're there, there's nothing to do! It's pure garbage. I've lived it. It was fine the first few times, and it probably seems fine when you go to 1 game every few years, but I wouldn't want to do it to even half of their home games every year. That's the coles notes version. The long, detailed, balanced explanation is lost to the ether of the internet. Alas. I am really jazzed about the Rendezvous Lebreton plan, having local restaurants bars to hit up before and after the game really adds to the number of casual sports fans that will head out to games. I think it really worked at the Lansdowne Redevelopment, and with their OC transpo + shuttle setup the crowds seem to clear-out pretty fast . Because you don't live there and go through the hassle the people do? I decided to go reading in Google and a lot of the articles based around the new stadium had people saying that the trips to Katana were a big deterrence to and they look forward to getting to a send game without the hassle it is now. No offense Wayne but I'll take the word over people who live there over yours in this case. Also it's been said that the drive is not the only issue but one of many. I don't know about the drive TO the arena but FROM is a huge issue. Say a 7:30 game ends at ~10:30, and since it's a playoff game you don't cut out early. It can take 45minutes to get out of the parking lot and then Orleans is 45+ minutes away. So you are looking at getting to bed at midnight when a lot of the civil service works early hours (like the military do 7-3). Or you can sit at home with your 60" HD tv (Really need to make the experience about more than just the game). Another big issue for the Sens is for decades every non-hockey franchise in the city has failed miserably; now the RedBlacks and Fury have stolen mindshare. -- But all that explains the regular season not the playoffs -- unless this is all a by-product of less season ticket sales which generally lag the team's performance. Link to post Share on other sites
Babying 613 Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 because leaf fans only make the drive a couple of times a year. And let's be realistic, while there my be 30% leaf fans in buffalo, it's not all of them. Would 19,000 people make the driv from Toronto to buffalo for every home game? My bet is there would be plenty who would skip games here and there. And you're also comparing apples and oranges. Sens tix are far more available than leaf tix. If you can't get or can't afford a 250 ticket for the ACC, you might drive to buffalo. But regardless, the drive to kanata is shite. My ex lived in Gloucester and that was a hellacious commute. But we are talking playoffs. If I could get tickets in the door for $60, you betcha I would be at the game. Hell Otto would be at every game. Link to post Share on other sites
Babying 613 Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 I am really jazzed about the Rendezvous Lebreton plan, having local restaurants bars to hit up before and after the game really adds to the number of casual sports fans that will head out to games. I think it really worked at the Lansdowne Redevelopment, and with their OC transpo + shuttle setup the crowds seem to clear-out pretty fast . I don't know about the drive TO the arena but FROM is a huge issue. Say a 7:30 game ends at ~10:30, and since it's a playoff game you don't cut out early. It can take 45minutes to get out of the parking lot and then Orleans is 45+ minutes away. So you are looking at getting to bed at midnight when a lot of the civil service works early hours (like the military do 7-3). Or you can sit at home with your 60" HD tv (Really need to make the experience about more than just the game). Another big issue for the Sens is for decades every non-hockey franchise in the city has failed miserably; now the RedBlacks and Fury have stolen mindshare. -- But all that explains the regular season not the playoffs -- unless this is all a by-product of less season ticket sales which generally lag the team's performance. 45 mins to get out of the rink? What kind of idiotic planner did they hire??? The are ways you can beat that. For instance I went to Buffalo with a car of 6 Leaf fans one Saturday night. I took a different exit and parked away from the rink. I walked away from my seat after the game finished and got home in 2 hours. I did not go the route that all other Leaf fans took (across the Peace Bridge) which was like a parking lot. Link to post Share on other sites
Fenxis 99 Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 45 mins to get out of the rink? What kind of idiotic planner did they hire??? The team got ****ed over by the NDP when they took power; first they had to pay $20m for the highway interchange (only privately built one in the province) and second they removed permission for the extra on-ramp in the middle of the parking lots. So there are massive bottleknecks as everyone trudges down Palladium Drive to the two highway entrances. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted April 29, 2017 Author Share Posted April 29, 2017 To be fair, there *were* big plans for the lands surrounding the rink. It was supposed to be a destination with more than just a rink, thousands of acres of surface parking, and 20 car dealerships. You have to consider the time that this happened. Planning probably started in the late 80s or early 90s. We were all still high on the car. Congestion wasn't really a thing yet, gas was cheap as ****, and we all thought the car was still our savior. Some visionaries saw this as foolish thinking well ahead of the rest of us, but the shift to the suburbs was still happening in full swing. Obviously the rest of the developments around the rink didn't work out, and the area has struggled as a result. I've been beating this horse dead since the day I moved to Ottawa. And it's not just there. All of the southern teams that are "failing" that everyone loves to rip on have arenas on the edges of their towns. Florida, Arizona are the two that come to mind immediately. But some of the other sunbelt teams, Tampa, Dallas... they don't get that failing label from Canadian sports fans. Their rinks are downtown. Tampa led the league in attendance in 2004(ish). It's a very simple problem of geography and geometry. Downtown rinks are typically accessible from all directions, whereas outlying rinks generally have 2 directions at the most. Downtowns tend to have robust transit networks so not everyone has to drive. Hell, people can even bike or walk if they live or work downtown. Everyone has to drive to a rink like Kanata or Sunrise and cars simply take up too much space, be it on the highway there, on the collector road leading to the parking lots, in the lots themselves, taking up the space where more vibrant land uses could add to the appeal of the area. Link to post Share on other sites
Babying 613 Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 DownTown rinks? Tampa downtown is like a ghost town. Detroit downtown is gross but people still come It is the fan base plains and simple. Ottawa having a team is a disgrace when you can't sell out for a playoff game Link to post Share on other sites
iBeaver 409 Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 DownTown rinks? Tampa downtown is like a ghost town. Detroit downtown is gross but people still come It is the fan base plains and simple. Ottawa having a team is a disgrace when you can't sell out for a playoff game There are tons of bars and restaurants near the JLA. That part of Detroit is not gross at all. The fox district now has million dollar homes and it's being over run by hipsters. Link to post Share on other sites
iBeaver 409 Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 Wtf double post Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 There are tons of bars and restaurants near the JLA. That part of Detroit is not gross at all. The fox district now has million dollar homes and it's being over run by hipsters. Crack houses in Toronto are worth more than $1 Million now. Link to post Share on other sites
Babying 613 Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 There are tons of bars and restaurants near the JLA. That part of Detroit is not gross at all. The fox district now has million dollar homes and it's being over run by hipsters. Yes that maybe the case now but how about 20 years ago. Fans still showed up Also include the old Chicago stadium. I remember going to a game and my biggest memory was the sign for parking. In huge letters was safe and than in small letters parking. I actually paid a kid $2 to make sure nothing happen to my car I however will not mock you saying you are wrong because that would be rude. I will just say I don't agree with your opinion Link to post Share on other sites
iBeaver 409 Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 Seems like you are saying I'm wrong by that last comment in an extremely passive agressive way lol. Whatever you want to believe. It's just a discussion. I live here. I think I have a better idea of what's going on in my city. *shrug* I surely am not claiming to discuss Toronto. And yes 20 years ago Detroit was in so so shape. Actually it was at its worse about 10 years ago. But now young white folk who like to take pictures of their food have moved in and there is a Whole Foods and new condos, the Book Cadillac was renovated into a luxury hotel, lots of cool upscale restaurants, urban farms, etc etc etc. It's not the dump you called it. We aren't talking about how cities were 20 years ago but if that's your point I'll still I guess be "rude" and say your wrong. Sorry, it's really nothing personal. The reason people would go to games 20 years ago when you believe the city was a slum was because of the easy access to the stadium for us in the burbs. Leave your nice plush neighborhood and jump on freeway and you get off and immediately park. No need to go into the horrible slums. Or you go to the nice part of the slums and go to any bar and they shuttle you safely to and from the game. Also they were the only successful team in a rabid sports market. I really don't know why this has to get edgy. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted April 29, 2017 Author Share Posted April 29, 2017 New topic. The Sens are quite a likable team. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted April 29, 2017 Author Share Posted April 29, 2017 New topic. The Sens are quite a likable team. Am I right? Wow. 5-5. Link to post Share on other sites
iBeaver 409 Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 Dammit my mobile FCP went to desktop. I hate when that happens. Link to post Share on other sites
Fenxis 99 Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 Am I right? Wow. 5-5. Pageau, what a beast in this game. Link to post Share on other sites
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