serge 904 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Capitalism is only convenient when it promotes oil consumption and escalating income gaps. Not when an entrepreneurial journalist sees an opening in the market for something. GO CARS GO Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 Who is doing that? Sometimes I think you and I don't even live on the same planet. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 GO CARS GO That's another one. Right wingers rave about the virtues of the free market, but ignore that car culture is anything but a result of the free market. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Who is doing that? Sometimes I think you and I don't even live on the same planet. it wasnt you, who listed her resume ( or lack there of) Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 That's another one. Right wingers rave about the virtues of the free market, but ignore that car culture is anything but a result of the free market. car culture is the result of technology...Its that humans want to travel faster, farther.... The total sales of cars in the United States is $564 Billion and another $173 billion in parts and repairs.. The auto industry contributes $135 billion in taxes every year.. Thats just cars...never mind oil...How will you replace this money, when you lessen the car impact on the economy Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Oh my Link to post Share on other sites
iBeaver 409 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 *looks in cupboard* Damn! Outta popcorn. Link to post Share on other sites
Babying 613 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 *looks in cupboard* Damn! Outta popcorn. if you can't find your popcorn it is under the sofa where you left it 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 car culture is the result of technology...Its that humans want to travel faster, farther.... The total sales of cars in the United States is $564 Billion and another $173 billion in parts and repairs.. The auto industry contributes $135 billion in taxes every year.. Thats just cars...never mind oil...How will you replace this money, when you lessen the car impact on the economy That's a good question, but it's not the right one. Cars aren't disappearing. They're just becoming less necessary and people are finally being given options, rather than requiring one to survive. That's competition, which is a direct function of a free market. The problem is, car culture was propped up by governmental policies that promoted sprawl and car-oriented development, and the tearing down and neglect of alternative transport systems. That's the only reason I bring up car culture as it relates to the oft-cited right wing rhetoric that the free market should be left to its own devices, as they're pouring billions and billions of dollars into inefficient interstate expansion in areas that don't even want it (highways are state level infrastructure in the US, and they don't care about the local consequences). That's just a fact. Transit is going to be subsidized by the government too. And I don't have an issue with either mode being subsidized, it's just that instead of bowing down to suck the automotive and gas/oil industries collective teat, I would prefer if consumers were given an option rather than being forced into one solitary form of lifestyle, which is most certainly not one-size fits all. (As with roads, transit does poorly privatized... profit shouldn't be the number one goal of either network) To answer your question, they build all of the TTC subways and streetcars, and GO passenger cars in Thunder Bay. Increasing consumption of transit would grow that local economy. Most governments have "build local" type laws where x% of the final assembly must be done locally. Obviously none of these are ideal, but in a globalized world, it's basically a pipe dream to think all money to stay within a single national economy. It's not how the automobile industry operates as it is anyways. Chrysler is owned by a foreign MNC, for example. Anyways, I'm not going back down this road again. I just always find it funny that right wing types (think Fox News) are always expounding the virtues of the free market, but tend to ignore the instances where government intervention helped with those "values" they now hold so sacred, like universal car ownership for all with absolutely no alternatives available. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 so in short, lets kill the automotive industry in favour of propping up Thunder Bay.. what makes it inefficient(the highway expansion), because the bus people say so? its all good your theories, but its a lot of bs in application... Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 we may live on different planets, but the funny thing is I am in the majority..I believe.. The world is a bigger place than the utopian textbook like lifestyle you want us all to lead..You promote choice, in the same breath you shoot down the lifestyles of others than dont conform to your beliefs. Henry Ford is rolling in his grave reading the tree hugging auto killers.. Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Serge, you're so close-minded on this issue I don't know how Zach continues to discuss it with you. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 Serge, you're so close-minded on this issue I don't know how Zach continues to discuss it with you. Thankfully, I said I wasn't getting into it. Link to post Share on other sites
MapleLeafpoker 1,462 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 we may live on different planets, but the funny thing is I am in the majority..I believe.. This is the key to your statement. Most people surround themselves with like minded friends+associates. Because your facebook friends all agree doesn't make it so. Same goes for me and my friends, same goes for Zach and his group of bar hopping by foot+bus socialists. Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 we may live on different planets, but the funny thing is I am in the majority..I believe.. The world is a bigger place than the utopian textbook like lifestyle you want us all to lead..You promote choice, in the same breath you shoot down the lifestyles of others than dont conform to your beliefs. Henry Ford is rolling in his grave reading the tree hugging auto killers.. Henry Ford was a Nazi Sympathizer and a huge anti-Semite. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/interview/henryford-antisemitism/ I win. Godwin's Law has been invoked. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 This is the key to your statement. Most people surround themselves with like minded friends+associates. Because your facebook friends all agree doesn't make it so. Same goes for me and my friends, same goes for Zach and his group of bar hopping by foot+bus socialists. that is just a stupid and closed minded statement, not sure what to say.. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Serge, you're so close-minded on this issue I don't know how Zach continues to discuss it with you. have you read the stuff Zach writes? Link to post Share on other sites
MapleLeafpoker 1,462 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 that is just a stupid and closed minded statement, not sure what to say.. Whats stupid about it? Whats close minded about it? Enlighten me enlightened one. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 have you read the stuff Zach writes? Yeah Dale, have you? Because Serge certainly doesn't. Link to post Share on other sites
Dubey 1,035 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Odd timing to post this, but I forgot to mention, I read your first blog post the other day Zach and it was really well done. Like someone else posted, you have a nice, easy writing style that is pleasant to read. I can't say that I have a particular interest in Urban Planning; I live in a city with very little public transit, but I will continue to read your blog. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 This is a relevant article: 9 Reasons the U.S. Ended Up So Much More Car-Dependent Than Europe I don't know what their reputation is, but I find The Atlantic to be pretty fair and balanced journalism. Link to post Share on other sites
iBeaver 409 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 I love cars. That autocorrected to cats and almost left it because I love cats too but the rest wouldn't make sense. I recently got a new car and already have a short list of cars I'll be looking at in 3 years. I love to drive. I will always have a car because of that. Also I love road trips. The wife can't fly without either being ridiculously medicated or being sick the entire time due to an inner ear issue. So we've always gone on aw seine road trips. Like Detroit to Vegas stopping at places like the painted desert and Grand Canyon. I also live in a city with very little public transport. We have buses but there are few and they don't go everywhere. At the apartment job I drove 26 miles to work. Took 20-30 min to get there. 45-60 to get home. I did look to see if I could do it by bus. Between walking over a mile to the bus top it took 3 bus changes and approx. 2 hrs travel. My wife works just a bit over a mile from work. She would have to walk a mile to the bus stop then take a 20 minute bus ride to get then next quarter mile since there's a loop before she gets dropped off at the hospital. It's crazy and not very sufficient. So we each have a car and that's fine. So I should be on the pro car side. But I'm Not. I just want a choice. We've always discussed moving to DC but waiting on Jin and issues with leaving family behind has slowed the process. But we like the setup. Live in a suburb outside DC. Sell one car. Use the Metro to get in and out of city. Car for trips back to Michigan and other places. Trains to Philly and NYC where friends live eyc etc. We want the OPTION. Options give us the best of both worlds. I don't see how having options is the end of civilization. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 with all due respect to Zach(please dont take it the wrong way) A real life example like Steve's is worth 100 more times than an article written in a text book.. I respect the need for options... Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 I love cars. That autocorrected to cats and almost left it because I love cats too but the rest wouldn't make sense. I recently got a new car and already have a short list of cars I'll be looking at in 3 years. I love to drive. I will always have a car because of that. Also I love road trips. The wife can't fly without either being ridiculously medicated or being sick the entire time due to an inner ear issue. So we've always gone on aw seine road trips. Like Detroit to Vegas stopping at places like the painted desert and Grand Canyon. I also live in a city with very little public transport. We have buses but there are few and they don't go everywhere. At the apartment job I drove 26 miles to work. Took 20-30 min to get there. 45-60 to get home. I did look to see if I could do it by bus. Between walking over a mile to the bus top it took 3 bus changes and approx. 2 hrs travel. My wife works just a bit over a mile from work. She would have to walk a mile to the bus stop then take a 20 minute bus ride to get then next quarter mile since there's a loop before she gets dropped off at the hospital. It's crazy and not very sufficient. So we each have a car and that's fine. So I should be on the pro car side. But I'm Not. I just want a choice. We've always discussed moving to DC but waiting on Jin and issues with leaving family behind has slowed the process. But we like the setup. Live in a suburb outside DC. Sell one car. Use the Metro to get in and out of city. Car for trips back to Michigan and other places. Trains to Philly and NYC where friends live eyc etc. We want the OPTION. Options give us the best of both worlds. I don't see how having options is the end of civilization. Good post. Link to post Share on other sites
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