Why Israel Can't Be A 'jewish State'

[Mercury69 3]

LOL, is this show that funny regularly?

Season 8 was pretty good. Don't listen to Brvhrt. He actually enjoys the show and has a mancrush on Leon.There's a good article on Grantland equating each Curb season to a pitching performance.

[All_In 0]

Season 8 was pretty good. Don't listen to Brvhrt. He actually enjoys the show and has a mancrush on Leon.There's a good article on Grantland equating each Curb season to a pitching performance.

thanks...i may have to get on bit torrent....

[brvheart 1,752]

Season 8 was pretty good. Don't listen to Brvhrt. He actually enjoys the show and has a mancrush on Leon.There's a good article on Grantland equating each Curb season to a pitching performance.

Quit being a terrorist sympathizer.

[mrdannyg 274]

Muslims behead a 17 year old for being Christian, watch for it on Al Jeezera

This is probably your worst post on the forum. I mean, I know you are a smart guy, in some ways, and your constant levels are pretty awesome, but this is actually offensive. Even the article calls them "Islamic Extremists," as opposed to Muslims. That would be like if a bunch of an evangelical wingnut said that the world was going to end on October 21st, and that was interpreted as "Christians think world will end today." Or maybe some Christian-based Kentucky wingnuts lynch a black guy, and we agree that "Christians hang young man for being black."Seriously though. Your hardcore Christian website calls them "Islamic Extremists" and you rewrite that as "Muslims." That isn't even racist, it's just stupidity.

[Mercury69 3]

Get a life, Islamic extremists!

[Balloon guy 158]

This is probably your worst post on the forum. I mean, I know you are a smart guy, in some ways, and your constant levels are pretty awesome, but this is actually offensive. Even the article calls them "Islamic Extremists," as opposed to Muslims. That would be like if a bunch of an evangelical wingnut said that the world was going to end on October 21st, and that was interpreted as "Christians think world will end today." Or maybe some Christian-based Kentucky wingnuts lynch a black guy, and we agree that "Christians hang young man for being black."Seriously though. Your hardcore Christian website calls them "Islamic Extremists" and you rewrite that as "Muslims." That isn't even racist, it's just stupidity.

1st, not even close to my worst post.2nd Islamic extremist aren't muslims?

[mrdannyg 274]

2nd Islamic extremist aren't muslims?

Yep, not at all incredibly hateful.I was actually thinking about my original reply and realized I did have it wrong. You are too smart and read too much to be ignorant or stupid. Guess you're just a bigot.

[Balloon guy 158]

Yep, not at all incredibly hateful.I was actually thinking about my original reply and realized I did have it wrong. You are too smart and read too much to be ignorant or stupid. Guess you're just a bigot.

Is calling someone a muslim a pejorative?If a person who claims Christ as their savior goes to a door and drags out a child then beheads him because they don't like their religion, I woud not be offended if you posted a link that said Christians behead a 17 year old, fox news will have the video.I think you are looking for a reason to justify your pre-conceived belief that I must be a bigot since I am a republican.

[mrdannyg 274]

Is calling someone a muslim a pejorative?If a person who claims Christ as their savior goes to a door and drags out a child then beheads him because they don't like their religion, I woud not be offended if you posted a link that said Christians behead a 17 year old, fox news will have the video.I think you are looking for a reason to justify your pre-conceived belief that I must be a bigot since I am a republican.

woosh woosh

[CaneBrain 95]

Is calling someone a muslim a pejorative?If a person who claims Christ as their savior goes to a door and drags out a child then beheads him because they don't like their religion, I woud not be offended if you posted a link that said Christians behead a 17 year old, fox news will have the video.I think you are looking for a reason to justify your pre-conceived belief that I must be a bigot since I am a republican.

So you agree the guy who shot up Norway was a Christian terrorist?

[Balloon guy 158]

So you agree the guy who shot up Norway was a Christian terrorist?

Sure.

[mrdannyg 274]

Sure.

I'm sure the headline "Christian murders dozens in Norway" would not have pissed anyone off.

[vbnautilus 48]

This is probably your worst post on the forum. I mean, I know you are a smart guy, in some ways, and your constant levels are pretty awesome, but this is actually offensive. Even the article calls them "Islamic Extremists," as opposed to Muslims. That would be like if a bunch of an evangelical wingnut said that the world was going to end on October 21st, and that was interpreted as "Christians think world will end today." Or maybe some Christian-based Kentucky wingnuts lynch a black guy, and we agree that "Christians hang young man for being black."Seriously though. Your hardcore Christian website calls them "Islamic Extremists" and you rewrite that as "Muslims." That isn't even racist, it's just stupidity.

Your analogy is broken because the doomsday christians that pick a specific day are going beyond what their religion prescribes. Fundamentalist christians (those that treat the scripture as literal truth) are indeed crazy, but they don't think the world is going to end on Oct 21. And if they did, we can safely ignore them. If these people were doing something that violated the muslim religion, then you'd have a point. Sadly, they are not. It's not racist at all to call a muslim a muslim. The better question is why do you try and protect the muslim religion from people doing the things it encourages to do? At some point the ideology itself needs to be held responsible.

[mrdannyg 274]

Your analogy is broken because the doomsday christians that pick a specific day are going beyond what their religion prescribes. Fundamentalist christians (those that treat the scripture as literal truth) are indeed crazy, but they don't think the world is going to end on Oct 21. And if they did, we can safely ignore them. If these people were doing something that violated the muslim religion, then you'd have a point. Sadly, they are not. It's not racist at all to call a muslim a muslim. The better question is why do you try and protect the muslim religion from people doing the things it encourages to do? At some point the ideology itself needs to be held responsible.

Is it the ideology, or the literal interpretation of writings? You're right that my analogy regarding the doomsday prediction was broken. So instead of the doomsday scenario, I'm sure we can find many colourful literal writings in the Bible, suggesting things that are equally terrible.I'd be interested in seeing a quote from Muslim holy texts that require Muslims to drag an underage person purporting to also be Muslim from his house and slice his head off.

[vbnautilus 48]

Is it the ideology, or the literal interpretation of writings? You're right that my analogy regarding the doomsday prediction was broken. So instead of the doomsday scenario, I'm sure we can find many colourful literal writings in the Bible, suggesting things that are equally terrible.I'd be interested in seeing a quote from Muslim holy texts that require Muslims to drag an underage person purporting to also be Muslim from his house and slice his head off.

This one is pretty close to what you are asking for: Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" But there's plenty more like that.

[mrdannyg 274]

This one is pretty close to what you are asking for: Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" But there's plenty more like that.

Nope. He did not disbelieve, or at least they had no more than hearsay to indicate as much. Does the next passage indicate who gets to decide who believes and who doesn't? And the punishment for those who do not follow instructions, since I'm pretty sure there are a few billion people out there openly disbelieving, and these brave Muslims aren't coming after us...I see what you're getting at of course, and no one is going to argue that striking of heads and fingertips is an appropriate suggestion for anything. But to say the ideology is to blame because following it leads to what happened when what happened was not actually following the ideology is faulty.Though, I will admit I am glad no one actually follows that...

[Balloon guy 158]

Is it the ideology, or the literal interpretation of writings? You're right that my analogy regarding the doomsday prediction was broken. So instead of the doomsday scenario, I'm sure we can find many colourful literal writings in the Bible, suggesting things that are equally terrible.I'd be interested in seeing a quote from Muslim holy texts that require Muslims to drag an underage person purporting to also be Muslim from his house and slice his head off.

Ah the wonder of the liberal mind and its ability to approach a subject with no regard to impartiality if they can force their agenda.The casualness of your talking about it shows how radical you guys are in your close mindedness.

[mrdannyg 274]

Ah the wonder of the liberal mind and its ability to approach a subject with no regard to impartiality if they can force their agenda.The casualness of your talking about it shows how radical you guys are in your close mindedness.

You're really just stringing words together now. I wouldn't be surprised if someone just programmed your username to randomly reply to everything with randomly-selected Limbaugh quotes for the last few months.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

It's not racist at all to call a muslim a muslim. The better question is why do you try and protect the muslim religion from people doing the things it encourages to do? At some point the ideology itself needs to be held responsible.

Not all Muslims believe everything in the Koran. Not all Muslims are 100% influenced by what the Koran says. (Similarly, not all Christians follow the Bible's literal teachings exactly).There are many people who claim to be "Muslim," but they're not all equal in their philosophy. Some are very secular and modern, others are fundamentalist. Thus, the term "Muslim" is an extremely vague one, just as "Christian" or "Athiest" is generally pretty bad. This is all obvious. My point is that it's important to separate "Islam" from "Muslims." I believe that much of Islam is bad, just as I believe a lot of Christianity is bad. But, for the most part, Muslims and Christians are good people.

[vbnautilus 48]

And the punishment for those who do not follow instructions, since I'm pretty sure there are a few billion people out there openly disbelieving, and these brave Muslims aren't coming after us...

They aren't?

I see what you're getting at of course, and no one is going to argue that striking of heads and fingertips is an appropriate suggestion for anything. But to say the ideology is to blame because following it leads to what happened when what happened was not actually following the ideology is faulty.Though, I will admit I am glad no one actually follows that...

I don't see how they weren't following. The details of how you root out nonbelievers are inconsequential once it is your intention to find them and kill them. Of course people who are caught will frequently claim they believe...

Not all Muslims believe everything in the Koran. Not all Muslims are 100% influenced by what the Koran says. (Similarly, not all Christians follow the Bible's literal teachings exactly).There are many people who claim to be "Muslim," but they're not all equal in their philosophy. Some are very secular and modern, others are fundamentalist. Thus, the term "Muslim" is an extremely vague one, just as "Christian" or "Athiest" is generally pretty bad. This is all obvious. My point is that it's important to separate "Islam" from "Muslims." I believe that much of Islam is bad, just as I believe a lot of Christianity is bad. But, for the most part, Muslims and Christians are good people.

Yes, for the most part both groups are filled with great people who ignore many of the things in their religious holy texts. (thankfully)But surely it is not an error to refer to someone as muslim when they commit an act in the name of their religion, which is prescribed in their religious holy text.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

But surely it is not an error to refer to someone as muslim when they commit an act in the name of their religion, which is prescribed in their religious holy text.

It's not an "error," but I would argue that it's more correct to say "Muslim extremist" since the majority of Muslims don't share the same interpretation of the Koran. My argument here relies on the fact that "Muslim" is a de facto term, which I think it has to be, and its connotation is based on the behavior of the majority.

[mrdannyg 274]

They aren't? I don't see how they weren't following. The details of how you root out nonbelievers are inconsequential once it is your intention to find them and kill them. Of course people who are caught will frequently claim they believe... Yes, for the most part both groups are filled with great people who ignore many of the things in their religious holy texts. (thankfully)But surely it is not an error to refer to someone as muslim when they commit an act in the name of their religion, which is prescribed in their religious holy text.

Maybe it is an error, maybe not. But to change the text from "Islamic extremist" to "Muslim" clearly exemplifies a severe bias.I think we're in the wrong forum again...

[Balloon guy 158]

It's not an "error," but I would argue that it's more correct to say "Muslim extremist" since the majority of Muslims don't share the same interpretation of the Koran. My argument here relies on the fact that "Muslim" is a de facto term, which I think it has to be, and its connotation is based on the behavior of the majority.

The estimate is 10-15%There are 1.4 billion muslimsThat means 140-210 million of them are extremist.Just want to make sure we don't get to pretend that since the majority don't think a certain way means there are only a few fringe ones.

[vbnautilus 48]

It's not an "error," but I would argue that it's more correct to say "Muslim extremist" since the majority of Muslims don't share the same interpretation of the Koran. My argument here relies on the fact that "Muslim" is a de facto term, which I think it has to be, and its connotation is based on the behavior of the majority.

Maybe it is an error, maybe not. But to change the text from "Islamic extremist" to "Muslim" clearly exemplifies a severe bias.I think we're in the wrong forum again...

I think this issue cross politics and religion, so its ok here. This thread is about the religious status of political entity. I address these together because they basically say the same thing. I think its incorrect to characterize people who take the religion at its word as "extremists". Yes, I see how they are extreme in their beliefs and behavior. But the subtext of this term -- and people often say this explicitly -- is that the religion is really a peaceful, positive thing at its heart, and this small group of folks is perverting it into something violent. I think this view is dangerous and incorrect. Its apologist and enabling. First, is it true that these "extremists" believe something different from the majority of muslims? I think this is probably true only within the united states, where religious views are heavily secularized by the culture. The koran itself puts people intending to be "mainstream" muslims in a difficult position. Compare with christianity. The Old Testament says some pretty heinous things. Christians though have a way out of following the gruesomeness of the old testament and still maintaining the bible's literal truth: jesus came and changed things. Modern muslims have no such out. These principles are written into the Koran and the theology states that the word of the prophet is the word of allah. These principles motivate much more than a few random acts of violence; they are at the root of the conflict with Israel for example, and entire countries (e.g. Iran) leverage these principles in their political opposition to western culture. Until there is an official theological change within Islam that separates itself from its own violent and divisive canon (something like the protestant reformation probably needs to happen), muslims have not earned the right to dismiss these people as "extremists". It also behooves us to keep the pressure on them to do this, because the longer we pretend that Islam is a positive force in the world the more we put off this necessary change.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

I think its incorrect to characterize people who take the religion at its word as "extremists". Yes, I see how they are extreme in their beliefs and behavior. But the subtext of this term -- and people often say this explicitly -- is that the religion is really a peaceful, positive thing at its heart, and this small group of folks is perverting it into something violent. I think this view is dangerous and incorrect. Its apologist and enabling.

I don't think it's peaceful at it's heart. I think it's indeed divisive and violent. But most Muslims see it as a religion of peace and use it to fuel a peaceful lifestyle. Judaism is an extremely violent religion, but most Jews use it to foster family and peace. I think characterizing a people by the a priori tone of their religion is deceiving. The people should be characterized by how they interpret their religion and how it effects their lifestyles. As an atheist, I think all religious texts are false and therefore, in many ways, dangerous (it not in terms of violence, in terms of intellectual integrity). However, I recognize that there are many people who are religious (in the sense that they claim to be religious, not that they follow the literal writings of a particular faith) who use religion to better themselves.