Rock Beyond Belief

[vbnautilus 48]

Which part? Are you trying to make a joke about how the Bible is just a fairy tale book? If so, ok.

I was being serious, but this is close if you consider what the original purpose of a fairy tale was. Example: I think you miss the entire meaning of things like resurrection because you take it to be a literal event rather than a mythopoetic one.

[brvheart 1,752]

I feel pretty confident in saying that among christians, you are in the minority in this one. Yet whenever you say this, you present it as something that we are getting wrong, but according to the amjority of christian teachings, im not sure we are.

I agree 100% that many "Christians", sadly maybe even the majority, also don't understand the gospel, which starts at the beginning of the OT and stretches to the end of the NT.

[Spademan 94]

I agree 100% that many "Christians", sadly maybe even the majority, also don't understand the gospel, which starts at the beginning of the OT and stretches to the end of the NT.

I've come to realize there is No True Scotsman in all of Scotland. Surprising, that.

[brvheart 1,752]

I've come to realize there is No True Scotsman in all of Scotland. Surprising, that.

It's wonderful that the founder of that argument is now a deist. Also, I don't believe I am using that argument, which won't surprise anyone, but I think that if the Bible says "this is how you are saved", and the vast majority of a group couldn't tell you what he said or what the Bible says on that issue, that you could make a pretty easy case that those people belong to that group "in name only".

[vbnautilus 48]

I agree 100% that many "Christians", sadly maybe even the majority, also don't understand the gospel, which starts at the beginning of the OT and stretches to the end of the NT.

You're fake-agreeing again. Are you not a biblical literalist?I don't think it's a true scotsman issue. It's more like: vb: I say X. brv: oh yes, I agree that Y. But Y != X. I was making a statement about your understanding of the bible and you sidestepped it by pretending that my statement was about "christians". You can't possibly believe that your understanding of the bible is incorrect, because if you did you would change it, and you would also not feel entitled to tell timewakefield that he does not understand it. So, you do not "agree 100%".I understand the value in finding common ground -- points of agreement -- and if that's what your intention is, I respect that intention. But its actually counterproductive here, because it prevents you from addressing the point of disagreement, which is where the interesting things happen.

[Skeleton Jelly 2]

I think you're fake-agreeing again. Are you not a biblical literalist?

Brvheart's position is that there were certain rules you had to live by in the days of the Old Testament. This included the Ten Commandments. When Jesus came and died for our sins, those old rules were no longer needed and the only thing that was required is that you accept Jesus as your savior. If you need some guidelines as to how you should live your life, all you really need to know is Love God, Love Your Neighbor.Brvheart is saying that most Christians probably don't realize that the Ten Commandments don't really apply anymore (which isn't to say that you wouldn't be ok still following them).What do you mean by biblical literalist? I mean, I think I know what that means, but what do you mean by it as it applies here.

[vbnautilus 48]

Brvheart's position is that there were certain rules you had to live by in the days of the Old Testament. This included the Ten Commandments. When Jesus came and died for our sins, those old rules were no longer needed and the only thing that was required is that you accept Jesus as your savior. If you need some guidelines as to how you should live your life, all you really need to know is Love God, Love Your Neighbor.Brvheart is saying that most Christians probably don't realize that the Ten Commandments don't really apply anymore (which isn't to say that you wouldn't be ok still following them).What do you mean by biblical literalist? I mean, I think I know what that means, but what do you mean by it as it applies here.

Well, for instance, he believes jesus actually died and came back to life. I think that constitutes a deep misunderstanding of the text.

[Skeleton Jelly 2]

Well, for instance, he believes jesus actually died and came back to life. I think that constitutes a deep misunderstanding of the text.

Ok.But that's not fake-agreeing, is it?I think I missed something somewhere.

[vbnautilus 48]

Ok.But that's not fake-agreeing, is it?I think I missed something somewhere.

No, I did. I thought he was responding to me above him with his 100% agree post but he was responding to mills. I missed his quote.

[Balloon guy 158]

Well, for instance, he believes jesus actually died and came back to life. I think that constitutes a deep misunderstanding of the text.

Did you guys come up with another obvious truth that everyone has been wrong about for 2,000 years AGAIN?Its a wonder that Christians invented calculus, medicine and higher learning with their inability to see what is so obvious once you guys get ahold of the Bible.

[Mills 0]

I agree 100% that many "Christians", sadly maybe even the majority, also don't understand the gospel, which starts at the beginning of the OT and stretches to the end of the NT.

Heh, it must be pretty awesome to have the real absolute truth amongst so many others who just think they have it.Sort of like being a 33nd degree mason....

[Skeleton Jelly 2]

No, I did.

Skeleton Jelly - 1vbnautilus - 0(We just started keeping score right now; past results are unofficial.)

[Balloon guy 158]

Heh, it must be pretty awesome to have the real absolute truth amongst so many others who just think they have it.Sort of like being a 33nd degree mason....

Let's leave Joseph Smith out of the discussion

[vbnautilus 48]

Did you guys come up with another obvious truth that everyone has been wrong about for 2,000 years AGAIN?Its a wonder that Christians invented calculus, medicine and higher learning with their inability to see what is so obvious once you guys get ahold of the Bible.

Well the muslims invented algebra, chess, and surgery and we know how bad they are at interpreting religious books...

[Roll the Bones 74]

And yet they are the foundation to a happy productive life. I've been in both camps, I can make a reasonable comparison.Attributing human frailties to God in order to misunderstand His motives is weak sauce.

But, isn't that what he is commanding Christians to do? Isn't honoring and loving him asking us/you to attribute human emotions to him?

This is probably the best car fish thingie.

I like the fish eating the fish, but couldn't find it so settled for the fish with little legs.

I think it's a pretty good principle myself.

Well, I suppose it depends on "how much" you love yourself.

[Roll the Bones 74]

This is probably not true and I haven't tried to verify it, but lord is it laced with irony and hilarity the more you think about it.ONLY IN TEXAS ... Texas Beer Joint Sues Church in MT.Vernon, Texas . Drummond's Bar began construction on an expansion of their building to increase their business. In response, the local Baptist Church started a campaign with petitions and prayers to block the bar from expanding. Work progressed right up until the week before the grand reopening when lightning struck the bar and it burned to the ground! After it was burned to the ground by the lightning strike, the church folks were rather smug in their outlook, bragging about "the power of prayer", until the bar owner sued the church on the grounds that the church ... "was ultimately responsible for the demise of his building, either through direct or indirect actions or means." In its reply to the court, the church vehemently denied all responsibility or any connection to the building's demise. The judge read through the plaintiff's complaint and the defendant's reply, and at the opening hearing he commented, "I don't know how I'm going to decide this, but it appears from the paperwork that we have a bar owner who believes in the power of prayer, and an entire church congregation that now does not."

[Skeleton Jelly 2]

But, isn't that what he is commanding Christians to do? Isn't honoring and loving him asking us/you to attribute human emotions to him?

No. The idea that you should love God isn't because God needs to feel loved.

This is probably not true and I haven't tried to verify it, but lord is it laced with irony and hilarity the more you think about it.

That's pretty funny.

[Spademan 94]

I don't think it's a true scotsman issue. It's more like:

There may be other points you want to make but the "Christians" in quotes is unequivocally a No True Scotsman issue. I mean, necessarily. It is, by necessity, a separation between "Christians" and real, non-quote-worthy Christians. It's possible he just idiotically doesn't know what quotation marks are and added them randomly to his text, but that's pretty fucking unlikely.

I like the fish eating the fish, but couldn't find it so settled for the fish with little legs.

This is a joke, I hope.If so, it's pretty lame.I'm 90% sure it is, but only on a credulous "wow if not" level. If it isn't, I'll address it now so I don't have to respond to it later.That is the flying spaghetti monster. I revise it to 99% sure, there's no way you don't know that.That leaves us with: wow, that's a lame joke.

[Skeleton Jelly 2]

Fish with legs:FSM:Fish eating fish?Evolve fish?Inexplicable dinosaur:Fish n' chips:Dave Ulliott:

[vbnautilus 48]

I was looking for the darwin fish eating the jesus fish which is what I assume randy was talking about, and in the process I found these:

[Skeleton Jelly 2]

There are a lot of variations out there. I edited my post above you several times.

[Spademan 94]

Fish eating fish?

I assume that's a Fox News-like "IF I AM LOUDER I AM RIGHT" Jesus fish eating a Darwin fish.

Inexplicable dinosaur:

I assume that is a dinosaur fucking up young earth creationism, because, dinosaurs (and a whole lot of other things which aren't as awesome as dinosaurs) fuck up young earth creationism.

Hmm:

I literally lol'd.

[Roll the Bones 74]

hard to see but only pic I have of it.

[Skeleton Jelly 2]

[BaseJester 1]

I agree 100% that many "Christians", sadly maybe even the majority, also don't understand the gospel, which starts at the beginning of the OT and stretches to the end of the NT.

From a purely semantic standpoint, this viewpoint seems like a waste of a perfectly good word. I also disagree with the sentiment that the entire bible is the story of Jesus, but it's still more clearly phrased that way.