1 Table Sng Quiz Question

[Agent 008 0]

You're in a 5$ 9-handed 1500 chip SnG, it is one of the first few hands, so you know little about the players but you know the opposition is generally weak at this hour on these tables.You get dealt 7 J in late position, everyone folds to you, and you make it 30 (the blinds are 5/10).Everyone folds, and BB calls with 1500 chips in front of him. You also had 1500 chips prior to the start of the hand.Flop comes K 7 J :club:He checks, you bet 40.He raises to 185, you call.Turn comes 5 , he bets 435, and you call.River comes 2 , and he is all-in for 850. You have 850 left.What do you do?a ). Callb ). Fold

[TrueAce13 18]

If your raising with J7 and flop this, I don't think there is anything you can do but call

[cdipierr 0]

This is a call now, but realistically, never raise J7s early in a $5 SnG. Then if you do and you flop bottom two and get check raised on the flop, please just ship. You're facing Kx enough times here that it's easily going to be profitable if he calls. If he folds, that's fine too because your hand is unlikely to improve. The time he shows up with KJ is just bad luck.

[Chet Chetterson 0]

This is a call now, but realistically, never raise J7s early in a $5 SnG. Then if you do and you flop bottom two and get check raised on the flop, please just ship. You're facing Kx enough times here that it's easily going to be profitable if he calls. If he folds, that's fine too because your hand is unlikely to improve. The time he shows up with KJ is just bad luck.

QFT

[outsider13 0]

This is a call now, but realistically, never raise J7s early in a $5 SnG. Then if you do and you flop bottom two and get check raised on the flop, please just ship. You're facing Kx enough times here that it's easily going to be profitable if he calls. If he folds, that's fine too because your hand is unlikely to improve. The time he shows up with KJ is just bad luck.

This 100% Fold pre, shove his c/r.

[nutzzcase 0]

bunch of nits lol, raising pre is fine ....

[TrueAce13 18]

bunch of nits lol, raising pre is fine ....

hope this is a level b/c we can get ourselves into sooooo many marginal situations here early in this a tourney

[donk4life 34]

bunch of nits lol, raising pre is fine ....

No, it's not. Especially in a SnG.

[outsider13 0]

No, it's not. Especially in a SnG.

Bolded for troof. The idea of sng play is tight early and save as may chips as you can for when sngs are won, which is shove/fold territory.

[nutzzcase 0]

Bolded for troof. The idea of sng play is tight early and save as may chips as you can for when sngs are won, which is shove/fold territory.

stacks are pretty deep (150bbs) it's seems kinda dumb not taking advantage of that by playing more pots in position.EDIT: why wait for coin flips if you have the opportunity to stack them with the better hand?

[Fade2241 0]

who voted no? lmao

[outsider13 0]

stacks are pretty deep (150bbs) it's seems kinda dumb not taking advantage of that by playing more pots in position.

You aren't going to win a sng in the first few levels. As I said earlier, sng's are won in the shove stages, so the more chips you have at the later stages, the more fold equity you have. The less fold equity you have, the less chance you have to win. Risking your chippies early with marginal hands is an easy way to lose your fold equity a blind level or two earlier than you want. Early levels are pretty much a battle of the bad players. Pick them off when you wake up with a big hand.Edit to your edit - SNGs are won/lost in coinflips. That's pretty much how they roll.

[nutzzcase 0]

You aren't going to win a sng in the first few levels. As I said earlier, sng's are won in the shove stages, so the more chips you have at the later stages, the more fold equity you have. The less fold equity you have, the less chance you have to win. Risking your chippies early with marginal hands is an easy way to lose your fold equity a blind level or two earlier than you want. Early levels are pretty much a battle of the bad players. Pick them off when you wake up with a big hand.Edit to your edit - SNGs are won/lost in coinflips. That's pretty much how they roll.

doesn't this hand prove that you can stack someone early in a sit and go? and if you stack someone wouldn't you have more fold equity later on?

[outsider13 0]

doesn't this hand prove that you can stack someone early in a sit and go? and if you stack someone wouldn't you have more fold equity later on?

On a gin flop, ya. Poker is ez when we flop the essential nuts.

[nutzzcase 0]

Edit to your edit - SNGs are won/lost in coinflips. That's pretty much how they roll.

I completly agree with you if blinds were higher with good players but I think 5$ sit and go players are pretty exploitable post flop.

[TrueAce13 18]

But we have such a more advantage later in stages b/c we can exploit shovebot. Raising hands that can get us in marginal situations is very -EV this early. People will give us our chips in situations where we don't have essentially flop the nuts to get stacks in

[JSpencer 0]

stacks are pretty deep (150bbs) it's seems kinda dumb not taking advantage of that by playing more pots in position.EDIT: why wait for coin flips if you have the opportunity to stack them with the better hand?

You don't want to play more pots...especially right at the beginning of a SnG. This is an extremely easyfold pre. Why are you going to risk getting in over your head for the sake of stealing 10 chips? Not to mentionyou are destroying your fold equity later in the tournament when the blinds actually mean something.Say he calls you and the flop comes Jh 2d 10h, you bet, and he calls or re-raises. Now you are in a shittyposition and it's only the first few hands. All for the sake of those 10 chips. There aren't too many flops that can come down that will have you ahead of a caller anyway.Pretty much have to call post flop though. If he has K J then it will at least teach you a lesson. But realistically, at this level he could be shoving with any King.

[nutzzcase 0]

You don't want to play more pots...especially right at the beginning of a SnG. This is an extremely easyfold pre. Why are you going to risk getting in over your head for the sake of stealing 10 chips? Not to mentionyou are destroying your fold equity later in the tournament when the blinds actually mean something.Say he calls you and the flop comes Jh 2d 10h, you bet, and he calls or re-raises. Now you are in a shittyposition and it's only the first few hands. All for the sake of those 10 chips. There aren't too many flops that can come down that will have you ahead of a caller anyway.Pretty much have to call post flop though. If he has K J then it will at least teach you a lesson. But realistically, at this level he could be shoving with any King.

you are obv not playing for 10 chips but for your opponent's stack...you are trying to take advantages of you opponent's mistakes post flop.EDIT: you have a lot of room to maneuver with 150bbs and you are in positionEDIT2: and isn't this the goal of small ball poker?

[TrueAce13 18]

How do you play this hand if we just flopped a FD. Or a naked J? We are going to be losing valuable chips early chasing or thinking we have the best hand This time we flopped gin and need to get the chips in, but in the long run we are going have to make tougher decisions if we get a piece of the flop

[nutzzcase 0]

it's a headsup pot, most of the time he's gonna miss the flop and you are gonna take it with a continuation bet (don't think you are losing too much value if any)if you think your post flop skills are better than your opponent I think you should be willing to play weaker hands in position.

[Agent 008 0]

it's a headsup pot, most of the time he's gonna miss the flop and you are gonna take it with a continuation bet (don't think you are losing too much value if any)if you think your post flop skills are better than your opponent I think you should be willing to play weaker hands in position.

Well, that is the reason I raised.Normally, I play SnGs much tighter, but this table seemed reasonably tight in the beginning so I figured there was a good chance I would be deep-stack heads-up in position. Which is an ideal situation for my type of play.

Then if you do and you flop bottom two and get check raised on the flop, please just ship. You're facing Kx enough times here that it's easily going to be profitable if he calls. If he folds, that's fine too because your hand is unlikely to improve. The time he shows up with KJ is just bad luck.

I disagree.Imagine, that the same thing happens, but after he check-raises you, you somehow get a glimpse of his cards, and see that he has Kx.Would you go all-in in this situation?Now imagine the same thing happens again, but when you look at his hand, you see that he has you beat - he has kings up, or a set. You most definitely are not shoving now.So if you knew exactly what hand he had, there is no situation where shoving is significantly better than calling. According to the fundamental theorem of poker, that means that calling is better than shoving here (unless you believe he's going to call with a pair of kings, and a less-than-A kicker).

[JSpencer 0]

you are obv not playing for 10 chips but for your opponent's stack...you are trying to take advantages of you opponent's mistakes post flop.EDIT: you have a lot of room to maneuver with 150bbs and you are in positionEDIT2: and isn't this the goal of small ball poker?

Why the hell are you raising with J 7 from the SB early in the tournament with the blinds at 5/10with the intent of playing for stacks? Raising with J 7 in that spot should only be done with the intent of stealing a blind. And the concept that"I have 150BB so I can afford to raise with crap" is pretty twisted. Especially this early on in a SnG.And no, that is not the goal of small ball poker. Small Poker is highly reliant on pot control, not on raising withcrap hoping to get lucky with a hand that is extremely vulnerable by a caller the majority of the time.

[Agent 008 0]

Anyway.When I was in the hand, I had this going through my head:1). He has seen me call his check-raise on the flop, and check-call a big turn bet of his. He has to give me credit for a strong hand.2). There is no reason why he would expect me to fold to his river bet. I was pretty confident he expected me to call.Now, what kind of hands could he be making such a move? AK, two pair, or a set.What else do we know? He just called my raise on the bb. From what I have seen, the average player in those SnGs tends to play AK or KK aggressively preflop. It is possible that he limped with one of those hands, but it is unlikely.Now, unless he is batshit insane, the only hand he could be doing it with that I could be beating was AK. But as I said, it was much more likely that he had a weaker hand preflop.So after thinking all this, I was pretty sure chances were I was beat, and I folded, thinking that he most likely was playing KJ, maybe a pair of 77 or JJ.I turn over my hand, hoping he'd do the same so that I could confirm my read... and he turns over KJ.I still had a good enough stack for those blinds, so I proceeded to build it back up and bust through the bubble.

[JSpencer 0]

If he has K J then it will at least teach you a lesson.

I turn over my hand, hoping he'd do the same so that I could confirm my read... and he turns over KJ.

And did you learn your lesson?

[nutzzcase 0]

And no, that is not the goal of small ball poker. Small Poker is highly reliant on pot control, not on raising withcrap hoping to get lucky with a hand that is extremely vulnerable by a caller the majority of the time.

" strategy which involves playing lots of marginal hands with medium-size raises, and maneuvering your opponents after the flop. The idea is to create an image of yourself as a maniac while you're really not."