Wikileaks

[strategy 4]

I despise adrian lamo and julian assange, the best evidence has been the Manning issue and ongoing non-events at wiki.

adrian lamo is THE biggest toolbag. supposedly he lost his boyfriend and a bunch of friends over the manning incident.

[Jeepster80125 0]

adrian lamo is THE biggest toolbag. supposedly he lost his boyfriend and a bunch of friends over the manning incident.

I hate calling actual fags faggots, I didn't know he's gay. But I stopped using that word after I saw the louie ck pokergame clip.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

I think some things don't need to be leaked such as that horrible footage of the helicopter killing the journalists and civilians or secrets that jeopardize national security or even foreign relations.Sometimes the truth hurts.

[Balloon guy 158]

I think some things don't need to be leaked such as that horrible footage of the helicopter killing the journalists and civilians or secrets that jeopardize national security or even foreign relations.Sometimes the truth hurts.

Or this:

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

Or this:

I just threw up in my mouth a little.

[Jeepster80125 0]

I think some things don't need to be leaked such as that horrible footage of the helicopter killing the journalists and civilians or secrets that jeopardize national security or even foreign relations.Sometimes the truth hurts.

I would counter that the worst parts of our country and society are more valuable at the forefront, being discussed. I agree that the video is horrible, but look at it in context. It's war. I think potentially embarrassing things like these political cables or the fact that now we know pakistan helps the taliban are good things to be exposed.There is a difference in my opinion, between embarrassing and national security related. Has anything been released that compromises our national security (whatever that means)?

[strategy 4]

I think some things don't need to be leaked such as that horrible footage of the helicopter killing the journalists and civilians or secrets that jeopardize national security or even foreign relations.Sometimes the truth hurts.

my position is that fewer awful things will be perpetrated by governments if there's a heightened risk of it seeing the light of day. I'm okay with assange being an asshat if it furthers that goal.you should watch the assange interview.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

I would counter that the worst parts of our country and society are more valuable at the forefront, being discussed. I agree that the video is horrible, but look at it in context. It's war. I think potentially embarrassing things like these political cables or the fact that now we know pakistan helps the taliban are good things to be exposed.There is a difference in my opinion, between embarrassing and national security related. Has anything been released that compromises our national security (whatever that means)?

You don't know what "National Security" means or how it might be jeopardized thru some sorts of leaks of secret information? How about lists of spies and their names?I don't know enough about the details of this current leak or if it has jeopardized National Security, but I do think that our relationships and discussions with Pakistan might be affected by leaking information.Not all "Truth" needs to be available or discussed. For Example: Never answer the "does this make my butt look big?" sorts of questions.

[Jeepster80125 0]

You don't know what "National Security" means or how it might be jeopardized thru some sorts of leaks of secret information? How about lists of spies and their names?I don't know enough about the details of this current leak or if it has jeopardized National Security, but I do think that our relationships and discussions with Pakistan might be affected by leaking information.Not all "Truth" needs to be available or discussed. For Example: Never answer the "does this make my butt look big?" sorts of questions.

I absolutely don't know what might fall under that umbrella. I don't think a 'spy' would ever get cozy enough to a person who generally wants to publish info like that. I don't think a list like that would ever get to a site like that. I'm a conspiracy buff though, so I think the government reads every piece of electronic data.edit: If we find concrete evidence that the pakistani government is actively training, funding, hiding, or otherwise aiding the taliban in afghanistan while taking US aid, then I absolutely don't mind that info becoming available. They're receiving US aid money while actively being responsible for US deaths in that country. Fuck them.

[strategy 4]

I absolutely don't know what might fall under that umbrella. I don't think a 'spy' would ever get cozy enough to a person who generally wants to publish info like that. I don't think a list like that would ever get to a site like that. I'm a conspiracy buff though, so I think the government reads every piece of electronic data.

one can't assume that the NSA hasn't broken the best cryptographic tools available to us, but it's pretty darn unlikely. this is why wikileaks is able to operate as it does without exposing its sources.for normal traffic, though, most of it is unencrypted and passes over a relatively few number of backbone routers. if you want to specify international traffic, it's even less of a leap to say the government is watching.

[Jeepster80125 0]

one can't assume that the NSA hasn't broken the best cryptographic tools available to us, but it's pretty darn unlikely. this is why wikileaks is able to operate as it does without exposing its sources.for normal traffic, though, most of it is unencrypted and passes over a relatively few number of backbone routers. if you want to specify international traffic, it's even less of a leap to say the government is watching.

That makes sense. I guess I'm still using the major government secrets example. I also don't believe that someone who would submit a list of spies to an online site is going to get very close to whoever has the list of spies. It seems rather unlikely that spy would get mad and make a list, or publicly 'out' their own. Or something. But this example has gotten kind of silly. I think we are all in agreement that these sites provide a service, but it will be interesting if the shit ever hits the fan (spy list outed).

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

one can't assume that the NSA hasn't broken the best cryptographic tools available to us, but it's pretty darn unlikely.

Wasn't there some sort of controversy a few years ago when the NSA required that anyone marketing cryptographic tools must give them the "key" and algorithms?

[Jeepster80125 0]

Wasn't there some sort of controversy a few years ago when the NSA required that anyone marketing cryptographic tools must give them the "key" and algorithms [citation needed]?

unfunny wiki jokes ftl.

[strategy 4]

Wasn't there some sort of controversy a few years ago when the NSA required that anyone marketing cryptographic tools must give them the "key" and algorithms?

I hadn't heard of that. the response, and I think it's a pretty valid one, is that security via obscurity falls flat on its face, so the NSA didn't gain much. there are open source cryptographic tools like GPG that demonstrate this point. anyone can use them for free, anyone can look at the source code, figure out how it works its magic. the sheer number of eyes poring over the code, constantly sending out bug fixes and updates... this is what makes solid software.tl;dr: knowing the process/code behind a tool shouldn't compromise anything if the tool is worth a damn.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

unfunny wiki jokes ftl.

Ha!http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipper_chipActually I remembered it sort of wrong. The NSA was going to require all telecommunications companies to use the Clipper Chip and put their keys in escrow. It failed.

[strategy 4]

Ha!http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipper_chipActually I remembered it sort of wrong. The NSA was going to require all telecommunications companies to use the Clipper Chip and put their keys in escrow. It failed.

that's... wow.I'm a little baffled with that article, I gotta say...I still don't understand why anyone wants to make encryption illegal.

[brvheart 1,752]

Whoever released this stuff will be found and will go down. Hard.

[Balloon guy 158]

that's... wow.I'm a little baffled with that article, I gotta say...I still don't understand why anyone wants to make encryption illegal.

During the cold war we broke almost every coded message the Russians were sending back and forth because we are just better than anyone at figuring things out.So having full access to their communications, while they have almost no access to ours, puts us at a huge advantage.Now we have the terrorist in the middle east, we can scour internet traffic and actually have a decent chance to find whatever they are saying, which again gives us a huge help in stopping them.There are encryption programs that are so difficult to crack that they are basically unbreakable.You using them to send pictures of kittens isn't the concern of this government. You sending them to plan the blowing up of a government business is.So the government wants to restrict everyone's ability to have true private conversations.I'm not saying I'm for it. I'm just saying I understand it.Plus I don't say anything that would get me in trouble, and as such due to the massive volume, no human will probably ever listen or read anything I write because the computers will filter me out as not important and my anonymity will remain the same as if I encrypted everything I wrote or said.

[Balloon guy 158]

edit: If we find concrete evidence that the pakistani government is actively training, funding, hiding, or otherwise aiding the taliban in afghanistan while taking US aid, then I absolutely don't mind that info becoming available. They're receiving US aid money while actively being responsible for US deaths in that country. F them.

The Pakistani government is secular, they have nuke weapons. They hate India, and they are 99% hard core muslims.So what's more important?Keeping things calm so no coups or radical clerics result in dramatic change?or Getting one old guy who is hiding in a cave to get our revenge?Now the Iranians on the other hand, that are actively training, equipping and funding the taliban and any other person who wants to shoot at American soldiers just because they are available...They don't have nukes...so the decision gets much simpler.

[Jeepster80125 0]

Whoever released this stuff will be found and will go down. Hard.

Are you familiar with the Manning part of this? The guy who released a bunch of info and got in trouble? If he didn't do it, he's most definitely the fall guy. If he got caught, in your opinion, should the website pay for his defense, if the website accepted obviously stolen or secret material?BG, are you condoning the actions of pakistan, if they are in fact aiding the taliban? I'm confused as usual.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

BG, are you condoning the actions of pakistan, if they are in fact aiding the taliban? I'm confused as usual.

He's not condoning what Pakistan is doing but he's saying that it's too important a country and too complicated a situation with nukes involved for the US to go off on a childish **** Pakistan rant. The US has to act like adults with them because screwing up can have devastating consequences.

[Jeepster80125 0]

He's not condoning what Pakistan is doing but he's saying that it's too important a country and too complicated a situation with nukes involved for the US to go off on a childish **** Pakistan rant. The US has to act like adults with them because screwing up can have devastating consequences.

As long as everyone knows 'not doing anything' is costing our country more casualties there. That sucks, and I wish our government weren't so willing to take on collateral damage. Obviously that speaks to the enormity of the situation.If pakistan is supporting the taliban, why aren't they providing nukes or something?

[Jeepster80125 0]

While crappy, I think this sort of stuff needs to be published. I don't think this type of stuff is bad.http://www.slate.com/id/2261911/Afghanistan's Census of the DeadWhat the WikiLeaks data reveal about civilian and enemy casualties of war. An interactive chart.

[strategy 4]

If pakistan is supporting the taliban, why aren't they providing nukes or something?

that's an action that can't be taken back. I suspect it hasn't happened yet in the interest of self-preservation.

[Jeepster80125 0]

that's an action that can't be taken back. I suspect it hasn't happened yet in the interest of self-preservation.

That's what I was thinking, but my middle east politics knowledge is lacking.