Is This Standard? Basic Hand, 2-5

[Voldemort 0]

LOL

HAHA

[king1305 0]

LOL

Hi

[Acid_Knight 2]

not always, you can be betting to win the hand then and there. outright.to avoid going to future streets and risk getting outdrawn.

No. We are betting for value. If he chooses to correctly fold his draw when presented with the wrong odds, good for him. Our bet is not made to make him fold a hand he should fold.

[Zach6668 513]

ask yourself.Have you ever assigned someone a range that you think you're ahead of, and then Bet.. and thought. "I hope he folds, but i'm ok if he calls"ever?

Even if I have, that doesn't mean I'm right in doing so.In this forum, I discuss poker theory. I don't play perfect poker, but in the forums, I have time to sit back and think about my responses without having to worry about my time bank, etc.

[NoSup4U 0]

Mark, when we "bet to protect our hand," we're just betting to get a worse hand to call.

Semantics, but I disagree. We lead 99 on an 8542 board after the flop goes c/c because we believe the guy has AK. We are not looking for a call, we're just making sure he doesn't get a free pull at the river. We lead 99 on a 862 flop after we've raised pf because we want someone to call with worse (78 or something)I understand we think the same way, but I like having a 3rd bet for protection category because I think logically it makes more sense. (we aren't really betting in this situation to get AK to call. We don't expect a call.)Mark

[El Guapo 8]

Even if I have, that doesn't mean I'm right in doing so.In this forum, I discuss poker theory. I don't play perfect poker, but in the forums, I have time to sit back and think about my responses without having to worry about my time bank, etc.

But what if we discuss beards? Does that change things?

[Naismith 0]

Semantics, but I disagree. We lead 99 on an 8542 board after the flop goes c/c because we believe the guy has AK. We are not looking for a call, we're just making sure he doesn't get a free pull at the river. We lead 99 on a 862 flop after we've raised pf because we want someone to call with worse (78 or something)I understand we think the same way, but I like having a 3rd bet for protection category because I think logically it makes more sense. (we aren't really betting in this situation to get AK to call. We don't expect a call.)Mark

When we lead with 99 on an 8542 board after the check-check flop, we want him to call with A-high as long as we're sizing our bet such that he's not getting the proper odds. For instance, in this specific hand, the flop has 100 in it, if we check through and open-shove turn for 300, it is much better that he calls than folds, right?

[Zach6668 513]

But what if we discuss beards? Does that change things?

Beard theory is far too diverse for me to be able to cover in its entirety.

[Stupidhead 2]

ask yourself.Have you ever assigned someone a range that you think you're ahead of, and then Bet.. and thought. "I hope he folds, but i'm ok if he calls"ever?

Yes.When I'm semi bluffing.Generally I want more than 2 outs when I do that though.

[NoSup4U 0]

When we lead with 99 on an 8542 board after the check-check flop, we want him to call with A-high as long as we're sizing our bet such that he's not getting the proper odds. For instance, in this specific hand, the flop has 100 in it, if we check through and open-shove turn for 300, it is much better that he calls than folds, right?

Of course, but we don't expect a call, we expect him to fold A-high. Our intent isn't to get value from his hand. It's to protect the value that our hand has. If we happen to get value from him, then woohoo. But this is neither our expectation or intent there.Mark

[Royal_Tour 0]

People.Humor me for 1 second please. Look over simple math as it may be wrong, buut who knows.we have a pot of 100 dollars. over 100 hands.we are a 4-1 favorite to win every time. and we bet 50 everytime giving villain 3-1. making his choice incorrect.so.100 in pot. we bet 50. villain calls.80% of the time we win 200. = 16,00020% of the time we lose 150 = 3,000total = 13,000number 2we bet 50. and villain folds. 100% of the time we win 150 = 15,000total 15,000is this correct?

[KingJames 11]

Hi

Hi!I <3 Naismith

[NoSup4U 0]

Hi!I <3 Naismith

Dead to me.Mark

[Naismith 0]

Of course, but we don't expect a call, we expect him to fold A-high. Our intent isn't to get value from his hand. It's to protect the value that our hand has. If we happen to get value from him, then woohoo. But this is neither our expectation or intent there.Mark

Yeah, I think you're arguing the same point, though. We can't force our opponents to make mistakes, but we hope they do. When we bet with 99, we want AK to call because it's a worse hand and we get money from worse hands that call.

Hi!I <3 Naismith

Thanks!Also, I wouldn't fold that QQ hand you posted in the Bored at Work thread on the 16th!

[KingJames 11]

Actually I <3 you all. Especially stupidhead. I am posting from my phone in the middle of missouri... Fml

[NoSup4U 0]

Yeah, I think you're arguing the same point, though.

That's what I said yo!

Semantics

Mark

[Royal_Tour 0]

Cansomeone please check my last post,I mean, call me crazy, (like you have been this entire thread)but winning less money 100% of the time is higher equity than hoping he calls while he's behind.so where are the fundamentals there? what about all this talk about only betting so worse hands call

[KingJames 11]

Yeah, I think you're arguing the same point, though. We can't force our opponents to make mistakes, but we hope they do. When we bet with 99, we want AK to call because it's a worse hand and we get money from worse hands that call.Thanks!Also, I wouldn't fold that QQ hand you posted in the Bored at Work thread on the 16th!

The BAW thread is like my personal BBV thread. And I am not kidding c/min-raise is 95%+ a set at the micros... Look at all the other 10000000 hands where my over pairs run into sets;)

[NoSup4U 0]

Cansomeone please check my last post,I mean, call me crazy, (like you have been this entire thread)but winning less money 100% of the time is higher equity than hoping he calls while he's behind.so where are the fundamentals there? what about all this talk about only betting so worse hands call

I didn't really understand your post (I'm watching TV though so my brain doesn't work as well)Mark

[KingJames 11]

Cansomeone please check my last post,I mean, call me crazy, (like you have been this entire thread)but winning less money 100% of the time is higher equity than hoping he calls while he's behind.so where are the fundamentals there? what about all this talk about only betting so worse hands call

I think you are wrong. I'm on my phone so I might be a little off here but I disagree wih your second part. When we bet $50 and they fold 100% of the time we win $100 (our bet doesn't count) 100% for 10000 which is less than the 13000 or w/e you said if we bet and get called and win 80%like if we bet and get called by worse (win) more than 50% than by definition it's a value bet and our expectation goes up, right?

[Royal_Tour 0]

I think you are wrong. I'm on my phone so I might be a little off here but I disagree wih your second part. When we bet $50 and they fold 100% of the time we win $100 (our bet doesn't count) 100% for 10000 which is less than the 13000 or w/e you said if we bet and get called and win 80%like if we bet and get called by worse (win) more than 50% than by definition it's a value bet and our expectation goes up, right?

No, thats incorrect thinking, once that money goes in its no longer our money.if you wanted to do it your way, then in the 1st example.when villain calls, we win 150 80% of the time, and he wins 100 20% if the time. making the numbers even outl

[Royal_Tour 0]

listen, there is no denying the fact that its better to not go to showdown. if you can win without any gamble.There was an article that said. (i'll try and find it) that thunder keller steam rolled his local casino cuz he hardly ever went to showdown. just kept scooping pots.and Matt (acid_knight) should attest , you cant get a graph like his, thats a constant Up "rocketship" by always getting into gambling situations.

[bull62 0]

'sup

[bull62 0]

2. You bet to get a better hand to fold

Matt does a lot of this.

[Zach6668 513]

listen, there is no denying the fact that its better to not go to showdown. if you can win without any gamble.There was an article that said. (i'll try and find it) that thunder keller steam rolled his local casino cuz he hardly ever went to showdown. just kept scooping pots.and Matt (acid_knight) should attest , you cant get a graph like his, thats a constant Up "rocketship" by always getting into gambling situations.

No, King James is right.That money is not in the pot until it's called. Our bet is winning $100.In the other part, once the bet is called, our equity in that $200 pot is 80%.