I_fold08 1 Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Me too. This guy has to be from indiana.yea, i guess u could call me biased but i think reggie was the only player to challenge MJ after the detroit years Link to post Share on other sites
BigDMcGee 3,352 Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 yea, i guess u could call me biased but i think reggie was the only player to challenge MJ after the detroit years LOL Link to post Share on other sites
babylondonks 5 Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 LOLI don't lol even quite reflects the hilarity of this statement. I almost fell off my chair. Link to post Share on other sites
BigDMcGee 3,352 Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 I don't lol even quite reflects the hilarity of this statement. I almost fell off my chair.yeah, I mean I GUESS we could call him biased. LOL Link to post Share on other sites
babylondonks 5 Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 yeah, I mean I GUESS we could call him biased. LOLOh I dunno. I mean I think the consensus of best players ever is something like thisMJ = ReggieBird/Magic/Wilt/Russell/West/Baylor/etc.The Rest of The LeagueRay Allen Link to post Share on other sites
Jadaki 0 Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 Ray AllenI'm laughing at this a lot harder than I should be, well done. Link to post Share on other sites
I_fold08 1 Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 Oh I dunno. I mean I think the consensus of best players ever is something like thisMJ = ReggieBird/Magic/Wilt/Russell/West/Baylor/etc.The Rest of The Leagueyou are taking what i said out of context. i didnt say reggie was better than those players just that after jordan got passed the pistons, reggie's pacers i feel are the only team that challenged those bulls squads.Ray Allen Link to post Share on other sites
BigDMcGee 3,352 Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 Oh I dunno. I mean I think the consensus of best players ever is something like thisMJ = ReggieBird/Magic/Wilt/Russell/West/Baylor/etc.The Rest of The Leagueyou are taking what i said out of context. i didnt say reggie was better than those players just that after jordan got passed the pistons, reggie's pacers i feel are the only team that challenged those bulls squads.Ray AllenSo not only is he a huge homer, and incompetent at quoting a post, but he's also humorless too. Link to post Share on other sites
chgocubs99 0 Posted April 26, 2009 Author Share Posted April 26, 2009 What? The Bulls with Jordan played in the pacers one time in the entire decade of the 1990's. Link to post Share on other sites
babylondonks 5 Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 What? The Bulls with Jordan played in the pacers one time in the entire decade of the 1990's.BUT IT WAS AMAZING AND SHOWED THAT REGGIE'S TEAM WAS ON A TRUE LEVEL WITH THE BULLS!!!!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
wsox8 10 Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 BUT IT WAS AMAZING AND SHOWED THAT REGGIE'S TEAM WAS ON A TRUE LEVEL WITH THE BULLS!!!!!!!!!Ya'll are krazy! Reggie "Shaved Head" Miller was and still is the greatest baseball player of all time. Grow up. Link to post Share on other sites
BigDMcGee 3,352 Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 From Bill Simmons, making the ray allen vs Reggie miller case way better than I ever could.. A number of readers disagreed, which I expected for the simple reason that Allen is underrated and Miller is overrated. For his nine-season prime (1999-2007), Ray-Ray was remarkably efficient (23-5-4, 45 percent FG, 40 percent 3FG, 90 percent FT) and rarely tried anything he couldn't do. If he were a baseball player, he would have been Wade Boggs -- not a franchise guy, but someone with a few elite skills (milking pitch counts, getting on base, stroking singles and, in Boggs' case, rarely missing a game) that made him a genuine asset as long as you surrounded him with other quality players.Miller had that luxury; Allen did not. Allen played on two contenders in his prime. His 2000-01 Bucks were so alarmingly screwed by the officiating against Philly -- please, Google "Bucks Sixers 2001 playoffs officials" and you will see what I mean -- that the '01 Eastern Conference Finals became the forgotten older brother to the infamous Kings-Lakers series a year later in the NBA's family of Series We Kinda-Sorta Rigged. In 18 playoff games, Allen averaged a 25-6-4 with blistering 3-point shooting (48 percent). Four years later, he averaged a 27-4-4 in 11 playoff games for an inspiring 2005 Sonics team that severely tested the Spurs (who won the title two rounds later). How would we remember Allen if he thrived on Miller's Indiana teams from 1994-2004? Flipping that around, how would we remember Reggie had he spent his prime relying on low-post scoring, shot-blocking and rebounding from Ervin Johnson, Jerome James, Predrag Drobnak, Armon Gilliam, Tractor Traylor, Scott Williams, Reggie Evans, Jason Caffey, Danny Fortson, Vitaly Potapenko, Nick Collison, Johan Petro, Robert Swift and a washed-up Anthony Mason ... which, by the way, was the entire line of power forwards and centers who played with Ray Allen in his prime?Allen made nine All-Star games (and counting); Miller made five in a weaker era. Allen made a second-team All-NBA; Miller never did. Statistically, Allen is better in every respect -- slightly better scorer, slightly better shooter, even percentages in every other category -- although Miller was definitely more durable. Miller had more big moments but played in more big games; everyone conveniently forgets about all the crappy ones he had. Like his unequivocal stink bomb in Game 7 of the '94 Eastern Conference Finals. Like his no-show Game 7 of the '95 Eastern Conference Finals (a 32-point blowout). Like how he disappeared in the fourth quarter of Game 7 of the '98 Eastern Conference Finals against an aging Bulls team that was running on fumes. He never had a consistently scorching run like Allen did in the 2001 playoffs or even in the 2008 NBA Finals. His two iconic performances (the 25-point quarter and the eight-point miracle finish) both happened at MSG, pushing it to a different level of significance, and if you think we'd remember him as fondly if those two games happened in Orlando or Detroit, you're crazy.The point isn't to demean Miller's credentials; I loved watching him and he's the only guard from the '90s who truly relished going against Jordan. His ability to raise his game in big moments remains his defining trait. Allen possesses that same quality but rarely displayed it because he toiled away on so many piddling teams. At his peak, Allen attacked Kobe with the same relish that Miller went at Jordan. He scared the hell out of countless fans in the last minute of big games. He's one of the best coolers (my term for guys who close out wins on the line) that we've ever seen. If he stays healthy for two or three more years and plays at a level comparable to the past two seasons -- and gets those belated playoff reps to boot -- "Ray vs. Reggie" won't even be an argument anymore. Ray Allen will have had a better career, whether you want to admit it or not. Link to post Share on other sites
I_fold08 1 Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 From Bill Simmons, making the ray allen vs Reggie miller case way better than I ever could..looks like i can argue for 2-3 more years then, hoping Allen starting this year will lose in the first round.also u notice the MJ point that he made lol Link to post Share on other sites
BigDMcGee 3,352 Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 looks like i can argue for 2-3 more years then, hoping Allen starting this year will lose in the first round.also u notice the MJ point that he made lolagain, because he "liked to play " against MJ, doesn't mean he challenged MJ. that's LOL funny to say. Playing one playoff series at the end of the Jordan era in Chicago ( and losing the series) isn't exactly challenging him. Simmons basic point, which was mine, was that Ray Allen toiled on lousy teams for most of his career, while reggie miller was in the spotlight, and a disproportionate amount of Reggie's reputation was built on games and series that occurred in NYC. As simmons points out, allen is better than miller at every single part of the game, including 3 point shooting, which is miller's only great strength. The only thing you can say is that Reggie is more " clutch" than allen, and the clutchness of a player, most of the time, is such an utter fraudulent thing that only exists in fan's mind. It's a product of small samples sizes and selective memory, for the most part. Why is the NYC games considered clutch but he's game seven games not considered chokes? IN every quantifiable sense Allen is better than Miller, and the only way you can continue to argue miller is your a utter homer. Link to post Share on other sites
CaneBrain 95 Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 It is pretty much impossible to argue that Reggie Miller is better than Ray Allen. Stats dont lie....and now Allen has a ring and Miller doesnt. Miller never even played in the NBA finals, right?This is a classic non-debate......Reggie Miller is only the 2nd best basketball player in his OWN FAMILY. Link to post Share on other sites
keith crime 8 Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 It is pretty much impossible to argue that Reggie Miller is better than Ray Allen. Stats dont lie....and now Allen has a ring and Miller doesnt. Miller never even played in the NBA finals, right?This is a classic non-debate......Reggie Miller is only the 2nd best basketball player in his OWN FAMILY.Allen has a ring because of Kevin Garnett and Paul PierceMiller was in a finals and he was the best player on his teamAllen was terrible for a large part of the playoffs last year Link to post Share on other sites
CaneBrain 95 Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Allen has a ring because of Kevin Garnett and Paul PierceMiller was in a finals and he was the best player on his teamAllen was terrible for a large part of the playoffs last yearKevin Garnett and Paul Pierce have a ring because of Ray Allen. Sure, he had his struggles in last year's playoffs (mostly against Atlanta in the 1st round) but he was an integral piece of that team. They dont win without him.Thats right I forgot about when Miller and the pacers got trounced by the Lakers. I would say Jermaine O'Neal was the best player on that team (by a lot, tbh).In short, I disagree. Link to post Share on other sites
keith crime 8 Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce have a ring because of Ray Allen. Sure, he had his struggles in last year's playoffs (mostly against Atlanta in the 1st round) but he was an integral piece of that team. They dont win without him.Thats right I forgot about when Miller and the pacers got trounced by the Lakers. I would say Jermaine O'Neal was the best player on that team (by a lot, tbh).In short, I disagree.when those pacers teams needed someone to take a big shot - they threw the ball to reggiewhen the celtics needed a big shot they threw the ball to pierce Link to post Share on other sites
CaneBrain 95 Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 when those pacers teams needed someone to take a big shot - they threw the ball to reggiewhen the celtics needed a big shot they threw the ball to pierceso is pippen out of the hall of fame?Having someone on your team who is better than you is completely independent of how good you are. Not really something you can control.When the Lakers were awesome from 2000-2002, Kobe took the late shots even though Shaq was the most important (and best) player on the team. Guards usually get the ball late. It's true, those Pacers teams went to Reggie in the clutch. That was his thing. That doesnt overshadow the fact that for the first 45 minutes of the game, Jermaine O'Neal was THE guy.Also, Ray Allen has hit a huge # of big-time late threes last year and this year. He gets the ball when they are down 3, Pierce gets it when they are down 2 or less. So, I am not sure your assumptions are even entirely correct. Link to post Share on other sites
I_fold08 1 Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce have a ring because of Ray Allen. Sure, he had his struggles in last year's playoffs (mostly against Atlanta in the 1st round) but he was an integral piece of that team. They dont win without him.Thats right I forgot about when Miller and the pacers got trounced by the Lakers. I would say Jermaine O'Neal was the best player on that team (by a lot, tbh).In short, I disagree.jermaine didnt play for the pacers in that series, and they lost to the most dominant team of the decade. series almost went 7 but kobe bryant is kobe bryant for a reason Link to post Share on other sites
Jadaki 0 Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Miller never even played in the NBA finals, right?Incorrect, they lost to the Spurs in 99.Edit: my bad, it was the Lakers. Who did the Spurs beat to win their first title? Link to post Share on other sites
Jadaki 0 Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 when those pacers teams needed someone to take a big shot - they threw the ball to reggiewhen the celtics needed a big shot they threw the ball to pierceHow much have you watched the Celtics the last two years. Allen is the go to guy in clutch situations on that team. Link to post Share on other sites
I_fold08 1 Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Incorrect, they lost to the Spurs in 99.lol and just in case that isnt sarcasm the lakers in 2000 Link to post Share on other sites
Jadaki 0 Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 lol and just in case that isnt sarcasm the lakers in 2000Yea I realized that after I posted it, I just cant remember who the Spurs beat in the strike shortened season now. Link to post Share on other sites
CaneBrain 95 Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Incorrect, they lost to the Spurs in 99.Edit: my bad, it was the Lakers. Who did the Spurs beat to win their first title?knicks (who were the 8 seed that year). pretty sure. this was the lockout year. Link to post Share on other sites
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