***///official 2009 Detroit Tigers Thread\\\***

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

****ing bases loaded one ****ing out and you don't score one ****ing run?!?

[TheWynn 0]

Un****ingbelievable. ahdfhadskjfkjasdkfaf!Terrible mother****ing fielding and base running. I can't ****ing believe it.I have a ****ing headache I'm so pissed.

[SBriand 4]

why is rodney pitching 3 inningsleyland confuses meFein, Rapada, Perry, Galaraga, Robertson, Bonine, etc still available...Rodney is not a 3 inning pitcher and anyone who blames this on him is retarded

[SBriand 4]

oh porcello roy

[TheWynn 0]

why is rodney pitching 3 inningsleyland confuses meFein, Rapada, Perry, Galaraga, Robertson, Bonine, etc still available...Rodney is not a 3 inning pitcher and anyone who blames this on him is retarded

I agree totally. I really have nothing more to say. I can barely even talk or type right now.

[rcooj_7 0]

why is rodney pitching 3 inningsleyland confuses meFein, Rapada, Perry, Galaraga, Robertson, Bonine, etc still available...Rodney is not a 3 inning pitcher and anyone who blames this on him is retarded

eh, the announcers said that he had been in that situation before and he COULD go 3 inngings... he was pitching well, and i am sure he was in talk with leyland inbetween innings"can you go""I feel good, let me go""ok"Leyland is a god, have faith

[SBriand 4]

eh, the announcers said that he had been in that situation before and he COULD go 3 inngings... he was pitching well, and i am sure he was in talk with leyland inbetween innings"can you go""I feel good, let me go""ok"Leyland is a god, have faith

You and the announcers are wrong. He has never gone over 2.0 innings all season. In the past before this season he went 3.0 innings once in 08, once again in 05, and once in 03. So 3 times. So you know, you and the annoucers don't have an actual clue

[TheWynn 0]

The announcers were horrid.

[FARGOpokerND 22]

Porcello deserves ROY but i think Bailey is going to get it.This season was a good one to watch (Obv you think I can say this since my Twins got in...but still...)And that final game was one of the most entertaining games I think any of us will ever see in our lifetimes. I was lucky enough to be at the game and the place was louder than any Viking game I have been to (well I have only been to 2 playoff games and one poitnless game...)We got lucky with the grazed-shirt non-call but sometimes judgment calls will go both ways.I'll call that makeup for the horrible call against Minn in Oakland earlier this year when the Ump called an out on a play he had no chance to even see.It was a good season to follow and I think we all can agree that we both want to see Det/Minn beat the shit out of the Yankees

[rivergirl 2]

i'm hearing a ton of reports that the tigers would be willing to listen to offers for Grandy........i find this absolutely stupid. Although he struggled with his BA, especially against lefties this season, he's young, got a great glove in center and has the ability to make up for what ground guillen won't be able to cover next year since they are giving left to guillen. Not only that, he's proven he can be a good hitter, has decent power and seems to be an all around great guy to represent the team in the community, especially a community that's in need of a good guy to be there. How can they even consider this????? Any thoughts?

[SBriand 4]

i'm hearing a ton of reports that the tigers would be willing to listen to offers for Grandy........i find this absolutely stupid. Although he struggled with his BA, especially against lefties this season, he's young, got a great glove in center and has the ability to make up for what ground guillen won't be able to cover next year since they are giving left to guillen. Not only that, he's proven he can be a good hitter, has decent power and seems to be an all around great guy to represent the team in the community, especially a community that's in need of a good guy to be there. How can they even consider this????? Any thoughts?

I am livid about them offering up Laird, Jackson, and Grandy.I don't see the point. Well I know the point, they have a bloated payroll because they are paying:Robertson $7MWillis $10MBonderman $12.5MOrdonez $18,971,596 (because he got his at bats last year and that forced you to pay this outrageous number. He now makes more than Pujols.)Believe we still also have to pay Shef a few Million or more. This is where there money went. Look at the three pitchers. Their record last year was 3-8 and well over a 7 ERA combined.Jackson and Verlander will cost us $5.8M vs their $30M. We have no closer, no setup, no 2nd, and no SS. This is according to the Tigers, not me. They don't have the money to resign Rodney, Lyon, or Polly. Thames, Treanor, Everett, Huff, Rodney, Lyon, and Wash are all leaving.So their idea is get rid of Jackson, Laird, and Grandy to free up $8.5M and do what? Get some prospects and still not have enough money to fill their needed roster spots? Their tone suggests they think this will help them compete next year. I don't see how. Suck it up, do what you can, maybe shop Laird since Avilla looked good, hope Zumaya will finally grow up and focus for next season and maybe just maybe he can be a serviceable set up guy. If Lyon or Rod stayed I would get rid of him as I think he is pretty much useless but they are stuck with him now. Use what you have in Lakeland to fill in the gaps, hell Dave DUMBbrowski kept toting that he has and I quote "10 legit MLB bullpen starters in Lakeland ready to go." So let's see them Dave because I don't.They are going to suck next year, maybe. They sucked this year and got to play 163 games. This division is a joke and it could be again. But after next year a lot of $ gets taken off the table, then start picking up the pieces. But to get rid of your great CF and and important piece of your rotation doesn't make that happen. I think it sets you back even further. Plus who do you replace Jackson with? You could barely put 4 pitchers out there last year and now you are left with Porcello and Verlander? Who are the other 3? You obv are saying you won't go pay for anyone so what? Verlander, Porcello, Robertson, Bonderman, and Glalalalalalaraga? Good luck. Bonine? lol Just think if you didn't go give Jurgens away for a useless Renteria? Verlander, Jackson, Porcello, and Juregens, and whoever you want. Nice rotation. Moral of the story: Dave needs to go, he put this team in this terrible financial position by giving players like Robertson $7M and by signing Willis to a huge $ deal before he ever made a pitch and his stats clearly showed a huge decline into the gutter. Just heard on the radio that the Yankees and Cubs look to be making a push for GrandyEdit: Just wanted to make sure I was correct and indeed Bonderman, Willis, and Robertson are off the books after next year. So keep Jackson, pay him his extra $3M and wait it out.

[rivergirl 2]

i can't agree more, sucking it up for one more year isn't going to hurt as much as giving up granderson and jackson. I can see getting rid of Laird, the catcher position isn't as irreplaceable as CF or any starting pitching. Avila did look pretty good and seems to know how to swing a bat. From what i've heard the Nats are looking at Everett and I'm actually hopeful that he's going and i'm glad that someone is showing interest in him. With the way he swings a bat worse than an AL relief pitcher, i didn't think he'd be someone other teams will go after (maybe they've just never seen him at the plate). I could care less if they resign Rodney, i know everyone thinks he had a "great" season but if you look at his stats, they really weren't all that impressive (i know his save % was great) but overall, it wasn't pretty and could easily have gone the other way. They could easily let Perry close, maybe swallow a few blown saves (although i think the kid is going to be great) and not worry about having to pay huge money for it. If they keep any of the free agents, it has to be Polly, he's just too much of an asset to let him get away....how can u just let a gold glove and a consistently clutch bat go?there should be 4 people not even mentioned in trade talks for the tigers grandy, JV, porcello and perry. These are your core guys for the next 10 years. they are all young, very talented and imo a great foundation to build a team around.i think if anyone should go, (and please don't get too upset, i know he's popular) it should be Inge. yes, he's great at 3rd and probably hard to replace but, his strike out numbers are horrific.

[SBriand 4]

INGE??!?!?!?!??!! lol,I love Inge but I have no issue with him being traded. Trouble is that no one wants his inflated price tag as well.I was thinking more about losing Grandy....You will have Guillen playing left all season barring injury (thames went bye bye, Rayburn to back him up and probably play infield at times) and Maggie out in right since you are paying him $19M. That is some slow corners out there. You need Grandy or someone with his speed and range to cover those two corners. You lose him and we got more issues.

[rivergirl 2]

the radio was reporting earlier today that DD has also put the feelers out there for Miggy. WTF, i thought this wasn't a fire sale?????We're in need of hitters....so let's give up the only guy who batted over .300 for the entire season for what, another .250 hitter or 2? srsly, wtf is wrong with this guy. I agree the whole "incident" during the last week of the season was probably not the smartest thing the guy could've done, but i'm sure he's learned his lesson. Do we really want to get rid of him. Wait, maybe we can get sheffield and renteria back for him.......

[SBriand 4]

Still rumors regarding Cabby but if they are looking to cut payroll it makes sense to me. One of the rumors was Clay Buchholtz and others for Cabby but again, just rumors.If they trade Cabby they can clearly get decent pieces and wipe out a huge amount of money off the books, huge amount. If Illitch is really looking to right the ship financially then I guess from a business standpoint it would be the best thing to do since you have all that other money tied up in worthless players. Also I would suspect that with any trade involving Cabby or Grandy would also involve Willis or Robertson to try and get rid of one of the bad contracts. As a fan, I don't like it. I would rather you take a year off, not compete, then next year most if not all the bad contracts are gone and you would have money to play with to start building around your core of Cabby, Grandy, Verlander, Jackson, etc. At least the ticket prices went down. Good for the fan but also a sign they are looking to cut a ton of payroll.

[rivergirl 2]

Although cutting ticket prices is nice, let's face it...of all the pro sports, baseball has always been and remains to be probably the lowest priced, reasonalby affordable game to go see at least in Detroit. It's not really necessary to cut prices when you can take a family to a game for around $100 including your concessions, and that with pretty decent seats, parking and a souvenier or two. Taking the same family to a redwing or lions game is maybe 2 or 3 times that amount with worse seats and nothing to eat or drink. The product they put out determines if they fill the staduim or not. Sure they spent most of the year leading the division, but in all reality, fans still had no confidence in the team (well, some fans). They weren't satisfied with the product and therefore not willing to spend the money. (i have no idea how the lions do it when they sell out, other than maybe some big corporations buying tickets for broadcasting revenues). The tigers don't get much national media coverage and aren't reliant on the staduim selling out so fans need more motivation to buy tickets for something they can watch from home. Losing big names like grandy and miggy aren't going to sell more tickets, it's going to hurt revenues even more. The tigers need to find another good hitter or great "personality" to draw people in. Fans want to see someone who can light it up and shine on the field. They don't want to see a baseball player who swings like a 6 year old in his first teeball game. The tigers need to add to the "glamour", not take it away if they want to fill the stands.I agree, waiting a year or even 2 until all that wasted contract money becomes available again is the right play. I think leaving things close to the way they are now will still keep them relatively competative in a horrid division. If they replace a weak bat with a mediocre one, (not even a good one, just a better one) it will do for a season.

[SBriand 4]

Granderson to NYY and Jackson to AZ

[eYank 0]

I like the deal for both the Yanks and Tigers. I think Arizona got the short end of it.

[SBriand 4]

Right now I am extremely unhappy because Granderson is one of my favorite Tigers and he was doing a ton of great things for the community out here. In terms of baseball as a business, I understand it. Just don't like it.

[TheWynn 0]

They did get 4 MLB ready players, but I hate to see Grandy go. FU Dombrowski.They are going to be lucky to get 10k season ticket holders this year.

[SBriand 4]

They did get 4 MLB ready players, but I hate to see Grandy go. FU Dombrowski.They are going to be lucky to get 10k season ticket holders this year.

Yeah there is no way they get 10K sold. 2 years ago they had 27K then last year 13K. Mix in the outrageous economy problems and growing unemployment rate on top of a team selling off their good players for young "hopeful" up and comers and you got a attendance issue about to start. Hence why they lowered ticket prices for next year already. They know what is going to happen. I will still go as I am 15 minutes away from Comerica and I love just going to the park regardless if they are winning or losing. Of course I would rather have them win.I know the radio guys are saying Austin Jackson is MLB ready but every scouting report I have read says differently. He wasn't hitting well in triple A as he was in lower levels. Most say he has all the tools but is a year away from the majors. We got issues regardless with Guillen in left and Mags in right. Comerica has a huge outfield and we have two cripples on the corner and we just gave away the only CF in the organization who can cover more than a normal CF would have to cover.We lost Polanco which was expected and we decided against arbitration and getting our supplemental pick and have decided to go with Sizemore next year. Scouting report on him is that he is a minus on the field. Signed Everett last week and he was serviceable at SS. Our middle is lacking and our outfield is filled with old cripples and an unknown. My friend mentioned putting Rayburn in CF and all I can see is all the times he has misplayed balls in left the last few seasons. Better than nothing but not by much. At least he showed he can hit lead off better than Curtis did.So our starting rotation today looks like Verlander, Porcello, and Sherzer, maybe Bondo, and a big ? for the 5th spot. I hear and read many people saying that Illitch no longer wants to win and I think that is BS. I have no doubts about his desire to win, never have. And we don't really know what many of those past deals consisted of. Were they bad deals by DD or was Illitch telling Dave to sign all those players to bad contracts. I think both are feasible. But with all those horrendous contracts still on the books, the economy in the area continuing to decline (thus low attendance regardless how good or bad the team is) he is forced to sell what he can and hope to rebuild after next year. I mean jeez, you lose over $30 million in payroll next year when just Bondo and Mags fall off the books. Then add in Robertson and Willis and that another $20M. Then take $40 million or more and go fill in the gaps. If that is the plan then I can wait a year.

[TheWynn 0]

I agree with you on just about everything. I'll still be going down regardless, mainly because I love the atmosphere of a baseball game. Our outfield will have to be the worst in the majors. To the some that say Illitch doesn't want to win is completely false, I believe their isn't an owner in professional sports who wants to win more. It would be irresponsible to say that just because he isn't breaking the bank to pay big money to the big guns as the Yankees do, doesn't mean that Illitch doesn't want it as bad. You also have to look at it this way: At the end of this year we will have a ton of money that comes off the books, and Guillen is gone after the following year. Now if Dombrowski is here then we will have to wait and see.My really big concern is bringing in people that can help us win and keep Verlander here. We better get players in here and win because if we don't there is no way I see Verlander resigning here if he doesn't see "the light at the end of the tunnel" through these moves. He will sign somewhere else where he sees himself winning.

[rivergirl 2]

i don't believe that Ilitch doesn't want to win, i'm sure he does....the red wings being the prime example of the guy's will to win. Although i think he spends way too much on them and not enough on the tigers.Getting Grandy off the books isn't a money issue really, his contract really wasn't that big...he only makes about $5million a year until after the 2012 season when the contract has a option for the '13 season for 12 or 13 million. That gives them plenty of time to get rid of the insane contracts that are on the books this year. I don't see the point in the trade, they got rid of granderson and jackson to pick up a less than granderson center fielder and a less than jackson starting pitcher. WTF? And to top it off they resign the shortstop that swings the bat like a 6 year old girl. If they would've picked up a decent shortstop in the trade, maybe someone to plug the hole at 3rd (there is nobody coming up and nobody who can reliably fill in for Inge). Now we have an extra hole and nobody proven to fill that extra void. The fact that there was no arbitration offered to Polanco sickens me even more. We know he wanted a multi-year deal, give him someone short term, he's not going to take it, but get your draft pick out of it. Instead DD said no to the draft pick and let him go. I'm glad we let rollercoaster rodney go to be perfectly honest. He couldn't possibly have been worth the money he was looking for. I know he had a great save % but if you look at his numbers as a whole, they really weren't that impressive. I think Perry can be a servicable closer, so i don't see that as a bad thing.I'll probably still catch a game or two at Comerica, and i'll make sure i at least listen to every game this year. Whether or not i'll be excited about doing it is another story. I hate having to get a program just to figure out who is who./rant

[rivergirl 2]

This hasn't been brought up, and if it has, i don't remember it (or am just too damn lazy to look). Is there some kind of clause in contracts so that players can be bought out if they can't play? Some sort of clause that they can buy them out for a percentage of the contract remaining if they are no longer able to play? I mean there has to be a cheaper way to get rid of Willis since imo he will probably never be able to pitch again. I know the tigers pretend like they are hoping he'll come back, but lets face it, it's highly doubtful. That way they can free up some money and not have it hanging over their heads.If there isn't a clause like that, why not? Do these lawyers who draw these things up have a clue if they don't put in something like this to protect the clubs interest?

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

Now we got Cabby...

Damn it.