Weird Spot

[RunnerRunner1990 0]

I am new here and since I only play sit n goes and MTT's I thought i would share an interesting spot... I find myself setting myself up sometimes for this kind of thing when I try to set others up, but overall I have found this to be very profitable because alot of people will overplay ace rag, 55-99, etc preflop and i can come back over the top picking up the dead money, or going in having them beat, or a coin flip...But when something like this comes up, what is your move? I feel I have the discipline to lay it down when my intended scenario did not pan out, especially with 3 people behind me to act, losing just 1bb. Maybe if I was last to act I might go over the top but even then Im not happy about it because it was a limped pot.Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, 110+9 Tournament, 30/60 Blinds (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comMP (t1300)CO (t2315)Button (t470)SB (t1050)BB (t2235)Hero (UTG) (t1630)Hero's M: 18.11Preflop: Hero is UTG with 10, 10Hero calls t60, MP calls t60, CO calls t60, Button calls t60, 1 fold, BB checksFlop: (t330) 4, 8, 6(5 players)BB bets t330, Hero folds, 3 foldsTotal pot: t330It felt like something hellmuth would wine and fold and barrate people with If it matters at all I ended up taking 2nd in this tourney.

[Gallo 1]

You have to accumulate as many chips as possible before getting deep, so you have to raise this PF and try and get value out of it. The other thing is, what are you going to do if someone raises it behind you? Flat call and then play post flop? Re-pop? You're probably better off raising and then if you get r/r'd decide what to do afterwards.

[donk4life 34]

I'm not sure if you can "trap" PF with 10s. It is an absolute must to raise PF.

[RunnerRunner1990 0]

You have to accumulate as many chips as possible before getting deep, so you have to raise this PF and try and get value out of it. The other thing is, what are you going to do if someone raises it behind you? Flat call and then play post flop? Re-pop? You're probably better off raising and then if you get r/r'd decide what to do afterwards.

I know thats the standard and what I normally do, but I try to take different lines so it keeps people guessing since theres alot of regulars at that level. Thats why Im wondering what would you guys do if u were in the above scenario on the flop?

[Gallo 1]

I know thats the standard and what I normally do, but I try to take different lines so it keeps people guessing since theres alot of regulars at that level. Thats why Im wondering what would you guys do if u were in the above scenario on the flop?

I mean the problem is that your hand is so well hidden and villain doesn't know you have an overpair. Decisions like this are a little more difficult because we limped PF.There are certain times that I might limp with TT, this isn't one of those times.

[MovingIn 0]

I know thats the standard and what I normally do, but I try to take different lines so it keeps people guessing since theres alot of regulars at that level. Thats why Im wondering what would you guys do if u were in the above scenario on the flop?

Another, more way to mix up your play is to raise every time, but play some marginal hands in EP.Really, limping in EP gives away value and invites more weaker hands to outdraw us.

[DonkSlayer 1]

Sorry dude. I play mostly $36 and $60 turbo SNG's, and I can tell you that limping with 1010, whether you're playing a $1 buyin or $1000 buyin or anywhere in between, you're set-mining, period. The LAST thing I want to do in a normal-stacked single table SNG is to be OOP with 1010 going into a flop, especially multi-way.

[RunnerRunner1990 0]

Sorry dude. I play mostly $36 and $60 turbo SNG's, and I can tell you that limping with 1010, whether you're playing a $1 buyin or $1000 buyin or anywhere in between, you're set-mining, period. The LAST thing I want to do in a normal-stacked single table SNG is to be OOP with 1010 going into a flop, especially multi-way.

Maybe to the unseasoned scared player, but when we KNOW the players behind us will pounce at any weakness shown with lesser hands (because we have played with these regulars alot before) that we have dominated, and have confidence to play after the flop and discipline to let it go when what we wanted to happen didnt happen, i dont think thats set mining lol.

[El Guapo 8]

So you folded, what did you think they had? 57 two pair?

[RunnerRunner1990 0]

So you folded, what did you think they had? 57 two pair?

i didnt think the BB had much to be honest, I folded mainly because my plan didnt pan out (to have someone behind pop me pre flop because i showed weakness), and because there was 3 people behind me to act that could easily have hit that flop because they limped too, so I took the safe route.

[MovingIn 0]

Maybe to the unseasoned scared player, but when we KNOW the players behind us will pounce at any weakness shown with lesser hands (because we have played with these regulars alot before) that we have dominated, and have confidence to play after the flop and discipline to let it go when what we wanted to happen didnt happen, i dont think thats set mining lol.

This is starting to sound more like FPS. Really, 1) the time to get tricky with a hand against advanced competition is after the flop, not before. And 2) again, if deception's what you're after, there's more value to sometimes raising PF in EP with a wider range of hands... than with limping PF with raising hands, because aside from getting the most value from your best hands... if you limp and someone raises behind you, you have little idea what they may have, or they may limp themselves with a big hand and either way, it's YOU getting trapped.If you're going to limp for deception at all, at least do it in LP or on the button, so you at least will have position after the flop if things don't go right.

[DonkSlayer 1]

This is starting to sound more like FPS. Really, 1) the time to get tricky with a hand against advanced competition is after the flop, not before. And 2) again, if deception's what you're after, there's more value to sometimes raising PF in EP with a wider range of hands... than with limping PF with raising hands, because aside from getting the msot value from your best hands... if someone raises behind you, you have little idea what they may have, or they may limp themselves with a big hand and either way, it's YOU getting trapped.If you're going to limp for deception at all, at least do it in LP or on the button, so you at least will have position after the flop if things don't go right.

I agree with all this...I'd rather limp with 76 here than 1010...but I'm probably just a "scared" and "unseasoned" player. What does FPS mean?

[SlackerInc 0]

I agree with all this...I'd rather limp with 76 here than 1010...but I'm probably just a "scared" and "unseasoned" player. What does FPS mean?

Fancy Play Syndrome.

[RunnerRunner1990 0]

but I'm probably just a "scared" and "unseasoned" player.

But its ok, it was my fault in the beginning to even explain why i did what i did, even saying before that, I know the standard in that position was to raise and this is just me trying to think outside of the box by mixing it up, against regulars who I have played with so much and know their tendencies.So sorry guys, no more posts from me in this thread about the preflop action so you wont have to 'teach' me the proper way, as what I was gouging from the very beginning was just what you would do AFTER you have put urself in this mess already, on the flop do you say:1) Screw it, BB wont lead out like that if very strong, and I have an overpair, Im going with it.Or2) Screw it, I got myself into this situation by limping, Im gonna fold here and just lose the 1BB since the people behind might wake up with a hand.Im thinking either one is okayThanks to all who contributed so far

[Gallo 1]

But its ok, it was my fault in the beginning to even explain why i did what i did, even saying before that, I know the standard in that position was to raise and this is just me trying to think outside of the box by mixing it up, against regulars who I have played with so much and know their tendencies.So sorry guys, no more posts from me in this thread about the preflop action so you wont have to 'teach' me the proper way, as what I was gouging from the very beginning was just what you would do AFTER you have put urself in this mess already, on the flop do you say:1) Screw it, BB wont lead out like that if very strong, and I have an overpair, Im going with it.Or2) Screw it, I got myself into this situation by limping, Im gonna fold here and just lose the 1BB since the people behind might wake up with a hand.Im thinking either one is okayThanks to all who contributed so far

But I agree with another post that if you're going to mix it up, then raise with different hands, not just strong ones.

[LJB723 0]

Can we edit this picture not to describe the direction of the thread but to describe how this hand was played.I don't see us being beat by the BB very often, if ever, in this spot. He most likely has an 8 or the flush draw, maybe with overs. I think I shove here, a call commits us to the pot on the turn anyway and doesn't let an 8 get away if an over falls.I just can't fold here because nothing indicates BB has TT beat preflop and we're only in awful shape against EXACTLY 75 after the flop.But the bloodbath began preflop and enough has been said about that.

[Gallo 1]

Can we edit this picture not to describe the direction of the thread but to describe how this hand was played.I don't see us being beat by the BB very often, if ever, in this spot. He most likely has an 8 or the flush draw, maybe with overs. I think I shove here, a call commits us to the pot on the turn anyway and doesn't let an 8 get away if an over falls.I just can't fold here because nothing indicates BB has TT beat preflop and we're only in awful shape against EXACTLY 75 after the flop.But the bloodbath began preflop and enough has been said about that.

The thing is by allowing the BB a free look he can have ATC, he could have 2 pair or a straight.

[sactownjoey 0]

I know thats the standard and what I normally do, but I try to take different lines so it keeps people guessing since theres alot of regulars at that level. Thats why Im wondering what would you guys do if u were in the above scenario on the flop?

I understand what you are saying and your intent. But, IMO, 1010 is not a trapping hand unless you know you are going to be raised light behind. Since you know the people you are playing against, did you think you were getting raised with any pp, suited connectors, etc? Even if you get raised behind and your trap "works" were you going to shove over the top pf? Flat then shove the flop? I have done this before in cash games at maniacal tables where every pot is raised pf because I know I am ahead of the huge raising raises of the others at the table. However, I can't imagine a scenario in a tournament when stacks were relatively even where I would devalue 1010 to the point it is basically 55.As played, that would depend on your read of the other players behind you but folding probably isn't horrible considering you essentially were set mining.

[Merby 3]

I'm not sure if you can "trap" PF with 10s. It is an absolute must to raise PF.

^^This^^

Maybe to the unseasoned scared player, but when we KNOW the players behind us will pounce at any weakness shown with lesser hands <...>

In response to this statement, I present:

<...>Preflop: Hero is UTG with 10, 10Hero calls t60, <...>Flop: (t330) 4, 8, 6(5 players)BB bets t330, Hero folds<...>

Congratulations, you played scared. The BB "sensed weakness and pounced".

So sorry guys, no more posts from me in this thread about the preflop action so you wont have to 'teach' me the proper way, as what I was gouging from the very beginning was just what you would do AFTER you have put urself in this mess already, on the flop do you say:

When you post a hand in strat, you have to expect everyone to analyse *all* of your play in the hand. Your decision to limp preflop dominated the discussion simply because it was the most questionable play in the hand. I know how much you want to trap, but I *strongly* suggest raising mid pairs 100% of the time in this position.