folding kk preflop

[Guest]

Is there anyone who thinks I could be folding there at a solid table with a SB who plays good? I think a fold can be made occasionally, obviously folding KK preflop is not an everyday thing. I've been playing for 3 years and this is a first, but I couldnt think of two hands played like that one of which didnt have me beat. I'm being given alot of information and to foolishly ignore it and say: "It's KK, all-in", is kinda reckless.

I've given up ring game no limit for now because apparently I suck at it, so I'm not going to chime in with what I would have done. But if you're this confident about the fold, why did you post it here? It doesn't seem like you are wanting actual feedback about the hand, you just want to be patted on the back for your great read.If you want honest feedback, post in strategy. If you want a pat on the back, go to general. Posting in strategy and then saying everyone that disagrees with you is wrong is a waste of everybodies time and effort.Zara

[Guest]

I dont think its a showoff fold. I think its an inexperience fold. NL cash game: You don't fold preflop. A donk with AQ, AJ, AK will make this play. Your good more often than not.

[Petoria 0]

Is there anyone who thinks I could be folding there at a solid table with a SB who plays good? I think a fold can be made occasionally, obviously folding KK preflop is not an everyday thing. I've been playing for 3 years and this is a first, but I couldnt think of two hands played like that one of which didnt have me beat. I'm being given alot of information and to foolishly ignore it and say: "It's KK, all-in", is kinda reckless.

I've given up ring game no limit for now because apparently I suck at it, so I'm not going to chime in with what I would have done. But if you're this confident about the fold, why did you post it here? It doesn't seem like you are wanting actual feedback about the hand, you just want to be patted on the back for your great read.If you want honest feedback, post in strategy. If you want a pat on the back, go to general. Posting in strategy and then saying everyone that disagrees with you is wrong is a waste of everybodies time and effort.Zara

I posted bc there have been situations where KK is foldable, rare but possible. I'm trying to get feedback bc the table is solid. If it was a crazy table with maniacs I would be in with no questions. If you're playing with good players, what are you putting them on?

[princeof56k 0]

A folding KK thread comes up about every two weeks. Go look at the other threads because the advice is all the same:Without an incredible read on the player, you can not fold KK, and even with the read folding KK is highly questionable.

[allinbluff35 0]

If you're playing with good players, what are you putting them on?not AA everytime I have KK, this post is stupid and so is your reasoning

[KDawgCometh 2]

look, the reason you aren;t getting much feedback is because of the insanity of your fold. Look you can't be playing against great competition because this isn't 10-20 NL. its only .25-.50 NL, so your level of competition isn't as strong as you are saying

[Pupsta 0]

only thing worse than this fold is folding AA when 5 are allin in a cash game. so yea, this is 2nd worst fold ever PF.

[Abbaddabba 0]

You keep saying that there are situations where you can fold KK. There are. This is not one of those situations. When you're playing at these small limits, there are MANY people who do that with far less than A/A; even tight players. You dont need to know anything about what they were actually holding to know that it was a bad fold.

[Petoria 0]

I'm the last one to preach results-based thinking, but I think the limits are not a factor. If a player is good, it doesnt matter whether or not he is playing .25/.50, 10-20, or 500-1000. Good is good, no matter how much money they play for. I don't understand how you can judge someone's skill based entirely on the stakes they play.

[Scott3705 0]

I think it's retarded to say you can't fold this because it's .25/.5. that type of blanket statement can make you lose a lot of money if you really take that attitude to a table. If you know your table, you know your table. Don't really know what type of tables you guys are playing at but most times when I see this action at a cash game whether i'm in the hand or not, I'm seeing AA or KK pop up. I'm seeing AJ, AK, 88 calling, but the raiser has got a big pair. I think the fold is fine..... Post is silly though. I still don't understand why you posted.

[Absolute 0]

I really think you have a severe misunderstanding of when to fold kings.You are getting 2 to 1 on your call when he pushes here pre-flop.show me one professional in the world who folds KK when they are getting 2 to 1 and i will show you a liar

[bmcarter 0]

Hey Petoria, in your OP it said that two people went to the river. So what did they have??

[allinbluff35 0]

Hey Petoria, in your OP it said that two people went to the river. So what did they have??

doesn't matter, it's a stupid fold, quit thinking about the results and think about how you played the hand

[Absolute 0]

Hey Petoria, in your OP it said that two people went to the river. So what did they have??

one of them obviously had AAthis is obviously a results-based thinking post

[Absolute 0]

Hey Petoria, in your OP it said that two people went to the river. So what did they have??

doesn't matter, it's a stupid fold, quit thinking about the results and think about how you played the hand

die

[MrNiceGuy 0]

I think this is a call in this spot, for the reasons enumerated already in the responses.To the OP: I don't like when you just called the re-raise for $2.50, I think you need to re-raise that again, especially if you're suspicious that you might be behind. When you just called, the button could think that you're not super-strong, and reraise with a medium hand. And SB could also think that you're not extremely strong. Even a good player moves in here with several hands (depending on his reads of the button and of you). So I don't think you have enough information to fold here, absent reads that the SB is an extremely tight, careful player.But, I don't think the OP's fold is absolutely terrible; I think it's a somewhat marginal situation. I think reads, even basic observations, matter a lot in this type of situation.A lot of responders are making it sound like you have to be absolutely certain that you're up against AA to fold in this situation; you don't. You only need to be right probably about 60% of the time. (You're getting 2-1 on your money, but you're going to be a bigger underdog when you run into AA than you will favored by when you run into AK, AQ, or AJ.) In a ten-handed game, every 23 times you hold KK, one of your opponents will have KK (EDIT: I mean AA), so it's not like it's an impossible event.

[Petoria 0]

How often does one of the guys have AA? If we can associate a percentage to that, we can figure out whether or not I should call. If it is 50-50 that AA is out there, and the pot odds are 2:1:So I'm a 4.5:1 underdog half the timeAnd I'm a 3:2 lead half the timeI'm making $6.90 on the callIf it is 60-40 in favor of AA being out there:I make $1.89 on the call.I feel that the odds of AA being out there are closer to 75%.I approximated my probability of winning the hand going against hands that would be played like this.

[Petoria 0]

I think this is a call in this spot, for the reasons enumerated already in the responses.To the OP: I don't like when you just called the re-raise for $2.50, I think you need to re-raise that again, especially if you're suspicious that you might be behind. When you just called, the button could think that you're not super-strong, and reraise with a medium hand. And SB could also think that you're not extremely strong. Even a good player moves in here with several hands (depending on his reads of the button and of you). So I don't think you have enough information to fold here, absent reads that the SB is an extremely tight, careful player.But, I don't think the OP's fold is absolutely terrible; I think it's a somewhat marginal situation. I think reads, even basic observations, matter a lot in this type of situation.A lot of responders are making it sound like you have to be absolutely certain that you're up against AA to fold in this situation; you don't. You only need to be right probably about 60% of the time. (You're getting 2-1 on your money, but you're going to be a bigger underdog when you run into AA than you will favored by when you run into AK, AQ, or AJ.) In a ten-handed game, every 23 times you hold KK, one of your opponents will have KK, so it's not like it's an impossible event.

I considered that, but they still have to deal with each other. Heads up, I'm all in everytime with KK. I really doubt both of them would push all in just to get me out of the hand. Maybe the button is weak, but there's no way the SB is also.

[Pupsta 0]

How often does one of the guys have AA? If we can associate a percentage to that, we can figure out whether or not I should call. If it is 50-50 that AA is out there, and the pot odds are 2:1:So I'm a 4.5:1 underdog half the timeAnd I'm a 3:2 lead half the timeI'm making $6.90 on the callIf it is 60-40 in favor of AA being out there:I make $1.89 on the call.I feel that the odds of AA being out there are closer to 75%.I approximated my probability of winning the hand going against hands that would be played like this.

75% sure that someone has AA is like me saying "god damn it, 99% of the time i have AK, someone flops quads on me!"

[MrNiceGuy 0]

I considered that, but they still have to deal with each other. Heads up, I'm all in everytime with KK. I really doubt both of them would push all in just to get me out of the hand. Maybe the button is weak, but there's no way the SB is also.

Well, I figure the SB is getting a good price to call too (probably about 2-1). Depending on his read of the button, a good player could still move in here with hands like QQ, JJ, or AK, I believe. I don't think he has any reason to put you on a hand as strong as KK after you just called his reraise.

[Petoria 0]

I considered that, but they still have to deal with each other. Heads up, I'm all in everytime with KK. I really doubt both of them would push all in just to get me out of the hand. Maybe the button is weak, but there's no way the SB is also.

Well, I figure the SB is getting a good price to call too (probably about 2-1). Depending on his read of the button, a good player could still move in here with hands like QQ, JJ, or AK, I believe. I don't think he has any reason to put you on a hand as strong as KK after you just called his reraise.

I dont think AK puts in a 3rd raise preflop, nor JJ. QQ is possible. You could argue that the SB has AA a plurality of the time. If you add that to the probability that the button has AA, I think that percentage is higher than 60%.

[BigSlick 0]

So how did the rest of this hand turn out???? You haven't said what the others ended up having in the hand??BigSlick

[Petoria 0]

I'm going to get ripped up by KDowg and Absolute, but....Button: QQSB: AA

[bmcarter 0]

Hey Petoria, in your OP it said that two people went to the river. So what did they have??

one of them obviously had AAthis is obviously a results-based thinking post

obviously

[KDawgCometh 2]

I'm going to get ripped up by KDowg and Absolute, but....Button: QQSB: AA

spell my name right man. the A nd O are on opposite sides of the keyboard :-) . Yes it is results based thinking. There isn't much other reason IMO that you would've posted this hand w/o one of the villians having AA. I wouldn't be surprised at the same tine if one of the villians had JJ, 1010, QQ, AK. My point of the limits is valid here in that players at this limit WILL overplay these hands in these situations. I'm not saying that good players don't play at these limits, but I don'tr think that they are generally asd a whole good enough to not overplay big hands