do you call this bet?

[NYIsles 0]

and take it like a man when we do Well, that's an intelligent post.Personally, I didn't ask for responses from the two or three "flamers" who claim to represent the entire forum. Ergo, in the future, I think it would make sense if you were to just ignore posts you find too difficult to read.Plenty of intelligent members were able to read the hand history and provide meaningful comment. That's all I asked for.End of argument.

[cdddc75 0]

and take it like a man when we do Well, that's an intelligent post.Personally, I didn't ask for responses from the two or three "flamers" who claim to represent the entire forum.  Ergo, in the future, I think it would make sense if you were to just ignore posts you find too difficult to read.Plenty of intelligent members were able to read the hand history and provide meaningful comment.  That's all I asked for.End of argument.

Why bother posting using the accepted norms of this forum so you get the most advice possible when you could post according to your preferred style and get ridiculed instead?

[NYIsles 0]

This is what you call ridicule? lol...

[DCWildcat 0]

At least put emoticon suits. Makes it nice and colorful. And gives images to make comprehension easier.Please

[KDawgCometh 2]

At least put emoticon suits. Makes it nice and colorful. And gives images to make comprehension easier.Please

no, he doesn't find it usefuil. Why should we bother commenting on it if we can't read an HH? :roll:

[KDawgCometh 2]

and take it like a man when we do Well, that's an intelligent post.Personally, I didn't ask for responses from the two or three "flamers" who claim to represent the entire forum.  Ergo, in the future, I think it would make sense if you were to just ignore posts you find too difficult to read.Plenty of intelligent members were able to read the hand history and provide meaningful comment.  That's all I asked for.End of argument.

never said that I represent the entire forum. I just don't get why you need to be special and do it your way when about 95% of the regular posters in this forum don't seem to have a problem with using a simple hand converter

[NYIsles 0]

never said that I represent the entire forum. I just don't get why you need to be special and do it your way when about 95% of the regular posters in this forum don't seem to have a problem with using a simple hand converterHonestly, KDawg, I really don't want to get into (or continue) a flame war about something so stupid. I personally just don't like the results of the hand converter. It's harder for me to read, and I'm quite certain I'm not the only one who feels that way.I don't think 95% of forum posters have stated they prefer the results of the hand converter, but whatever. I'm not suggesting that people who like it should stop using it, but I don't think people who don't like it should be forced to use it or be flamed for not using it.If, as a result of my not using the hand converter, I lose the benefit of sage wisdom from members who refuse to reply without it, then it's my loss. Really doesn't affect you (or anyone else) in the least.Make sense?

[allinbluff35 0]

use the converter, it's not about what YOU like, it's easier to calculate the pot odds and the exact actions of each villian on each street, not to mention it's colorful

[JaysonWeber 0]

edit this and use the converter, please

Okay it was driving me nutz... NYISles your a DISTINGUISHED Forum Member USE THE HAND CONVERTER!I Edit'ed it myself and converted it, it took me less time to convert it than it would have to read through that rubbish.PLEASE PEOPLE USE THE BLOODY CONVERTER BEFORE I START BREAKING THINGS!!!!!!!!I fold here by the way...

[Absolute 0]

I don't mind being the jackass who will ALWAYS flame someone when they don't use the converter.Saying that a formatted HH without the converter is the better option is ignorant.The posters in this forum need to be able to read lines and calculate what is in the pot, who is being the aggressor, and your position in the hand.The converter sums up the bets in the pot, color codes aggression, and makes it VERY easy for those of us who have a fine understanding of limit poker to give you good advice.If you really want to make the most out of this forum, use the converter. A lot of the more knowledgable players won't even respond to HHs without it.I'm sorry you don't like to put the extra ten seconds in to it.If youd like, go post that messy shit in general and content yourself with the wonderful advice you will get from, well, those who post primarily in General (and actually take it seriously)Otherwise, I will be here, flaming away.And I won't care if you call me a jerk, a child, or a loser for doing so.

[custom36 4]

PLEASE PEOPLE USE THE BLOODY CONVERTER BEFORE I START BREAKING THINGS!!!!!!!!

Do you always turn british when you're upset? It's kinda funny...

[KDawgCometh 2]

PLEASE PEOPLE USE THE BLOODY CONVERTER BEFORE I START BREAKING THINGS!!!!!!!!

Do you always turn british when you're upset? It's kinda funny...

its more fun to get mad and speak the queen's english. Fuckin shite, see try it, its fun

[JaysonWeber 0]

PLEASE PEOPLE USE THE BLOODY CONVERTER BEFORE I START BREAKING THINGS!!!!!!!!

Do you always turn british when you're upset? It's kinda funny...

yeah dude... I've watched too many Guy Ritchie films so sue me :)It's pretty funny for people who haven't hung around w/ me much to see me get pissed at something and say Bloody, Pikey, Rubbish all that shit...

[KDawgCometh 2]

3 table sit 'n'go; 4 players left, all are in the money...PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (4 handed) converterBB (t9178)NYIsles (t7570)Button (t9437)SB (t14315)Preflop: NYIsles is UTG with [7d], [Ad].    NYIsles raises to t800.Flop: (t1675) [Jc], [6d], [Td] (2 players)NYIsles bets t1000, Button calls t1000.Turn: (t3675) [7h] (2 players)Final Pot: t3675Thanks...

okay, now how is this worse than a HH. I just want to know. This is actually readable. I don't see how you didn't like the "results" of it. what am i missing.okay, now to take a look at this baby.Don't make a min riase PF with this hand. Riase it to at least 1200, but I like 1500 better. On the flop Bet the pot or push in. I'd push the turn. You have more outs now. Any ace seven or diamond will winit for you. A read on teh opponenet would be nice, it'd help deicde whether or not a push would be wise on the turn

[NYIsles 0]

I didn't run this through the converter; I'm guessing JW did. But, for starters, what happened on the turn? The converter somehow missed my turn check and then my opponent's ensuing all-in bet for $6K. Anyway... the general concensus has been that the pre-flop raise was too small (agreed, although that was the standard pfr at the table), and that I should have bet out on the turn. The latter point I don't agree with. As I stated earlier, this opponent was playing a particularly passive game, checking a lot of heads-up hands down through the river. Since he flat called the flop bet, I felt I was likely behind at that point - and I figured a turn bet of $2K or so would have committed me to the pot. So, why commit myself (when behind) when I had a reasonable chance of seeing the river for free?Notwithstanding any of the foregoing, the above points were really not the crux of the post. I was more interested in hearing some thoughts as to the process of deciding whether or not to call a tournament all-in bet based on something other than pure pot odds. In other words, I was clearly not getting the right pot-odds to call this all-in bet, even assuming a clean 14 outs. However, a pure pot odds argument only holds true if your tournament chips are magically converted to cash at the end of the day, on a dollar for dollar basis. This clearly isn't the case. The question is, how much of an edge should you be willing to lay (insofar as pot odds are concerned) if winning the bet will put you in great position to win the whole thing? And how do you make those kinds of calculations on the fly?

[NYIsles 0]

For whatever it's worth, the numbers aren't even accurate. If the blinds are 200/400 with a 25 ante, how does the omniscient converter come up with 1675 in the pot on the flop?

[KDawgCometh 2]

For whatever it's worth, the numbers aren't even accurate. If the blinds are 200/400 with a 25 ante, how does the omniscient converter come up with 1675 in the pot on the flop?

:roll:

[NYIsles 0]

For whatever it's worth, the numbers aren't even accurate. If the blinds are 200/400 with a 25 ante, how does the omniscient converter come up with 1675 in the pot on the flop?

:roll:

Well, I'm curious. I mean, it's your baby. If you're going to rely on its calculations when making your assessments, shouldn't those calculations at least be accurate?

[KDawgCometh 2]

For whatever it's worth, the numbers aren't even accurate. If the blinds are 200/400 with a 25 ante, how does the omniscient converter come up with 1675 in the pot on the flop?

:roll:

Well, I'm curious. I mean, it's your baby. If you're going to rely on its calculations when making your assessments, shouldn't those calculations at least be accurate?

I didn't make the software. If you want to be a jagoff about it, go ahead. Just be prepared to accept the fact that you will be harrassed by posters, and even by the forum mod. It was never said that the converter was infalliable, but you instead decide to continusly whine like a little baby. The point is for us to read it clearly. I don't see how a HH is more clear than what Jayson changed it to, and I don't understand why on earth you are even terying to keep on arguing that point. Look I will edit anything in my hands that doesn't neccessarily add up right. IT IS NOT ABOUT YOU, IT IS ABOUT DOING THE OTHER POSTERS A SERVICE. When I post one of my hands, I make sure to take the time to get everything right. If The converter hasn't caught something, I note it to the other people. YOu are asking US, to help YOU out. So why can't you just see how eaiser it is to read a hand that is converted. Look even Jayson ragged on you about it, doesn't that make you wonder. Look Wrto and I didn't waste like three threads a few months ago experimenting with the converter, so it could benefit the whole strat forum, for people to come along who don[t spend much time here and give everyone crap about how a HH is better. If you go to a site that doesn't work with the converter, fine no biggie. But you keep on sticking to your guns in the face of much criticism. I am only acting this way becausse of your holier than thou attitude about it. I'm not trying to run you out of the forum, but if you want to get good responses and consisitent responses then please for the love of god use the converter and change any pertinent info that may be wrong. It won't take you more than a minute. I can garutnee the biggest contributors to this section will not give you advice if you don't want to take the time to help them out. IF we are to take our time to help you out, shouldn't you do the same for us

[looshle 6]

I've tried using the coverter and it's messed my hands up badly. I've have to go back and change just about every street so that it showed the real action of the hand. On this hand, it messed up the pot size, consdierably and left out all of the action on the turn. Why the hell would you put up such a fuss to use something that doesn't even work like it's supposed to? Is it some type of control issue?The original hand history the OP used was perfectly fine. It showed all of the bets and pot sizes ACCURATELY. It wasn't any harder to read than what the coverter puts out. How is it doing the forum a service if it doesn't give out all the details and then messes up what it shows??? When it starts working like its supposed to then I have no problem using it but it's just a HASSLE. It's a bigger hassle to use than it is to read the somehow harder to read hand history. If you need pretty colors to make thing readable, go buy a kids book and look at all the pretty pictures. Until it does what it's supposed to, don't get so pissy when someone uses the original hand history. Go get some vagisil, rub it on your clam, and help with the hand instead of wasting so many posts on something so stupid. Jesus.

[KDawgCometh 2]

is BisonBison's converter a perfect pice of software, no. But the HH DIDN'T GIVE THE POT SIZE. If you aren't gonna use the converter then at least text it out. I haven't had too many problems with the hand conveter myself and I have put up numerous hands. Either both of you are computer idiots, or you just feel like being rebels when most would rather look at it in converter form. For every fuck up the conveter does, it works at least three other times. Plenty of people have used it for tourny hands and NL hands and its been more than fine. You whine just as much as a little baby yourself looshle, should I get you a pacifier and some strained peas

[109suited 0]

KDawg serves yet another. I don't know why you people bother even arguing with him. He just keeps owning your faces.

[Absolute 0]

looshle, you are one to tell someone that they are acting like a woman.go back to being a bitchy woman in general.please

[NYIsles 0]

Look, guys...The original post had nothing to do with the hand converter. I'm sorry this got so out of hand... KDawg, I've never liked the damn thing, but if it's important to most of the strategy posters, I'll use it in the future. I just think it's worthy to note that on the most basic level, it makes mistakes when calculating pot sizes. Anyway, this was the relevant idea behind the OP:Notwithstanding any of the foregoing, the above points were really not the crux of the post. I was more interested in hearing some thoughts as to the process of deciding whether or not to call a tournament all-in bet based on something other than pure pot odds. In other words, I was clearly not getting the right pot-odds to call this all-in bet, even assuming a clean 14 outs. However, a pure pot odds argument only holds true if your tournament chips are magically converted to cash at the end of the day, on a dollar for dollar basis. This clearly isn't the case. The question is, how much of an edge should you be willing to lay (insofar as pot odds are concerned) if winning the bet will put you in great position to win the whole thing? And how do you make those kinds of calculations on the fly?Nobody has responded to this point (with the exception of an earlier poster who referred to the spreadsheet found in Paul Phillips' blog). Unfortunately, I wasn't able to access that openoffice spreadsheet (Excel failed to work with it). However, I've taken some time over the last couple of days to develop an Excel spreadsheet that calculates tournament EV (for up to four players thus far) when faced with an all-in decision at a final table. Some of the results may be a little surprising, particularly for those who look exclusively at pot odds.I'll post the results and my thoughts in a new topic, since I think it would be best to put this one to rest. [/b]

[KDawgCometh 2]

Anyway, this was the relevant idea behind the OP:Notwithstanding any of the foregoing, the above points were really not the crux of the post. I was more interested in hearing some thoughts as to the process of deciding whether or not to call a tournament all-in bet based on something other than pure pot odds. In other words, I was clearly not getting the right pot-odds to call this all-in bet, even assuming a clean 14 outs. However, a pure pot odds argument only holds true if your tournament chips are magically converted to cash at the end of the day, on a dollar for dollar basis. This clearly isn't the case. The question is, how much of an edge should you be willing to lay (insofar as pot odds are concerned) if winning the bet will put you in great position to win the whole thing? And how do you make those kinds of calculations on the fly?]

I think the key here is, what is the payout structure since all said players are now in the money. This goes into consideration in making this call. Now Eddie don't be giving me some lameass bullshit about only ever going for a win, pay out structure is ver important. What was the original buy-in and how much profit would you have already made if you were to finish in fourth. I don't think I remember if you mentioned the pay out or not