Interesting Obama Article...march 1 2008

[Balloon guy 158]

lol, lets not get into the Israel debate here. The candidates and their pastors are keeping us busy enough.Another thread somewhere, fine, as I completely disagree with you and would love to here what you are basing "they've been in the wrong" on.

Here's something we agree on. Israel has shown great restraint if you ask me. As a country in the cross hairs of the region, their civility is the greatest accomplishment.You know Obama's going to throw them under the bus?Hillary has already hugged the wife of Hamas leaders. Not even funny how little Hillary will do to support Israel.Like him or not, Bush has been a friend of Israel.

Lol not this time. Anyway, I've done this debate before with a member of mymontana forum but from the other side. But you make the thread and the link and I'll come.

Chicken

[Balloon guy 158]

That Nutz guy aint half bad either...

High five

[Loismustdie 0]

You've readily accepted that your president hasn't told us the truth for eight solid years, and you don't seem to mind. Saddam was involved in 9/11? No, but hey, who minds if Bush says he was? Even the story of how he became a Christian has been doctored: see http://www.slate.com/id/2186343/entry/2186344/. But who minds if he pretties up his conversion to include a famous pastor rather than a local kook? McCain says he never sought Hagee's endorsement? That's a lie, too. But you don't seem to mind.That's exactly why I can't stand republican voters. They don't even GRASP that their fave candidates are lying to them -- or, they do grasp it, but don't give a damn.

Bush acted on intelligence produced by our agencies, sometimes intelligence is wrong. That's not attempting to hide ties to and possible harboring of racist views. That's acting on the intelligence he's given. I'm also not a huge fan of Bush, but no matter that I have said that a thousand times. Also not a fan of McCain, but he's a known entity vs. Baracks not so much so. As far as McCain lying, I don't know. I support McCain by default, because I believe that for the most part he tells the truth. When he comments on Iraq, I believe him-he has been there many,many times to observe and visit. When he says,"I don't know much about the economy" I applaud the honesty and hope he finds someone that can advise him who DOES,instead of throwing out all these BS ideas that he thinks I want to hear. You see what I am saying? I just looked up Hagees views. If McCain denied ties to him, I have an issue with that, because biblically the guy is right on. I just did a quick google and I will paste some of his "shocking" views, but you will notice there is no hate speech, just religous belief:On Jews: It was the disobedience and rebellion of the Jews, God’s chosen people, to their covenantal responsibility to serve only the one true God, Jehovah, that gave rise to the opposition and persecution that they experienced beginning in Canaan and continuing to this very day.And: How utterly repulsive, insulting, and heartbreaking to God for his chosen people to credit idols with bringing blessings he had showered upon the chosen people. Their own rebellion had birthed the seed of anti-Semitism that would arise and bring destruction to them for centuries to come.On gays: All hurricanes are acts of God, because God controls the heavens. I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God, and they are — were recipients of the judgment of God for that. The newspaper carried the story in our local area that was not carried nationally that there was to be a homosexual parade there on the Monday that the Katrina came. And the promise of that parade was that it was going to reach a level of sexuality never demonstrated before in any of the other Gay Pride parades. So I believe that the judgment of God is a very real thing. I know that there are people who demur from that, but I believe that the Bible teaches that when you violate the law of God, that God brings punishment sometimes before the day of judgment. And I believe that the Hurricane Katrina was, in fact, the judgment of God against the city of New Orleans. I would comment on each but really these are so vanilla there is no reason. Bible says Jews crucified Christ and denied him, the last sin in a long line of them that made God angry for the last time. The second comment, don't know, I would need to see the context, it sounds like he is commenting on scripture. The 3rd, I can see why a pastor may believe that but since it's not exactly a proven fact I would have an issue with it being said, although I could not honestly say it was not possible. So, yeah, I have an issue with McCain for not showing the nerve to comment on this honestly. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. It still won't change my vote, but thanks anyway. See how that's handled? You:"Your candidate lied to!!Nyeah,nyeah!!" Me:"Really? Let's check this out. Oh, this isn't that big of a deal, show some nuts Mr. Candidate, hey, thanks for bringing this to my attention." This is a classic example of the difference between most Democrats and Republicans. This is what I do everyday, when I go back and forth with Democrats, who for the most part are good people, just unbelievably lost and ill informed. Which, in this age, is irresponsible and to a certain extent even reprehensible.

[Loismustdie 0]

Now if this were BG, I wouldn't even have to spell this out so slowly and using such small words, but you just proved my point. Lois said Democrats don't care if their candidates are liars. I said Republicans don't either, and pointed out three egregious lies from Republicans. Your response is that yes, you acknowldege that these are lies and that your candidates are liars, but you don't mind it at all. Their lies are fine with you. I scored the goal, but you definitely get the assist here. Good job.I wish this were a joke account of Suited's, but probably not.

Yeah, I think I took your point away, and just dunked in your face.

[Loismustdie 0]

That Nutz guy aint half bad either...

Sorry,Scott, hadn't seen you in awhile. What's your schedule like? You want to meet up at Crackerjax and hit some balls? Look at that, I managed to be racist and gay in one swoop. I have no home.

[SlapStick 0]

In magic this is called misdirection. Snap my fingers and say: "Look over here, don't look at Obama, look at Haggee"

I was waiting for a good arguement from you on the differences, but thats sad and ridiclous, its like argueing with a very intelligent 10 year old.Obama has recieved some much heat and dropped points due to Rev. Wright, while McCain has a pastor equally as bad and its not even covered. Obama told Wright to stay away from his candicay party, while McCain actually sought Hagge's endorsement.And noone pays attention, instead of noticing the glaring double standards, its called an attemtp by the dems to switch direction. Such a joke.To be honest, I am intending to listen to McCain a tiny bit more, about his views on Israel.But Bush has not done anything for Israel, His first time coming to Israel was last month. After 8 years in power.Israelis know what situation they are in, and do hope for a friendly face in the white house, but Bush was far from appreciated.

[hblask 1]

I cannot believe this statement. Wright's rhetoric was dark, vile and extremely racist. Once I was at a meeting and their was some southern men there and they cracked a couple of black jokes, i was shocked and uneasy about this. With Rev. White I get sick to my stomach and want to throw up!!Oh yeah, I used to live one block from Rodney King in Altadena, CA and never heard any of this crap. The people I lived around were hard working and great people. Still communicate with one family that used to live next to me, he is a black minister and he is horrified.

Can you post a quote that you find racist? I'm seriously asking, trying to be informed, because this controversy baffles me. Because I've listened to it a couple times, and read the transcripts, and I agree it's inflammatory, but I don't see the racism. It's not like I have love for the "inflammatory preacher" types -- Jesse Jackson is a charltan who plays the race card for profit, and Al Sharpton is one of the most racist people in the country. But I really don't see it in this case.

[hblask 1]

I didn't say it wasn't our mideast policies. Our unswerving support for Israel even when they've been in the wrong. Our former support of Iraq and Sadaam when Iran was the enemy. And that was all before 9-11 took place. I support Israel's right to exist but they are not perfect so when they do wrong we need to hold them accountable.But that said, is it really such a stretch that the terrorists would want a spectacular blow against the United States? Would that not be the ultimate recruiting tool? Com'on, I don't think even you are that naive.

There are thousands of worthy targets worldwide, not all of them in the US. Yes, this was a great symbolic one, but saying "we're going on a symbolic suicide wreckage tour, join us" would not get any recruits unless the reason behind it was solid (in their heads, at least).

[hblask 1]

The main reason they attacked us was because of the Securlarism in this society.

I'm not sure if this is a joke or not. If you are serious, do you have some reference to the terrorist making this statement?

[hblask 1]

Why don't the American people listen to the terrorist over the President? Really? Your hatred of Bush is making you loopy.

I had high hopes for Bush, I was actually just a bit happy to see Bush elected, mainly because it meant his opponents weren't. But he's got a long, documented history of lying to us about the Middle East, and the terrorists have been telling us for years one consistent story -- even before 9/11: get out of our problems or it will come back to bite you. Once 9/11 happened, Bush didn't want to admit his policies were a failure, so he did the classic misdirection, and changed it from being the fault of the government ("it was because of our terrible Mideast policy") to being the fault of the American people ("it was because you are free and secular"). Then they added the "if you don't believe us, you are unpatriotic" line, which is the biggest bunch of BS around. I think making the world hate the US is unpatriotic. I think sending our children to die in an unwinnable war is unpatriotic. I think questioning our right to question him is unpatriotic. Wiretapping the phones of innocent people is unpatriotic. Anyone who loves this country would not treat it the way George W Bush has.

[Loismustdie 0]

Can you post a quote that you find racist? I'm seriously asking, trying to be informed, because this controversy baffles me. Because I've listened to it a couple times, and read the transcripts, and I agree it's inflammatory, but I don't see the racism. It's not like I have love for the "inflammatory preacher" types -- Jesse Jackson is a charltan who plays the race card for profit, and Al Sharpton is one of the most racist people in the country. But I really don't see it in this case.

Then you're blind. If it wasn't, why fire him from the campaign and compare him to Ferraro? If it wasn't, why twist in the wind, trying to distance yourself from his comments? The pastor is a race baiter, straight up, NOBODY in any news media is actually dumb enough to argue that he's not. It's obvious, it's blatant, again NOBODY is coming out and saying,"What's the big deal?" I am surprised at you. Meanwhile, the media has him squirming over his "typical white woman" remarks. This shit is funny, it's not sad, or an indication of the direction of society, it's funny, in that if you are raised around, spend time around, taught by, nurtured by, then subsequently hire, racists, guess what? Somewhere along the way you become a racist. This is the type of thing that causes super delegates to jump ship, and since Clinton is even worse in her own special way it's smooth sailing for McCain. I think for the Democratic party the horrific part is.. this is your best and brightest? You consistently prop up the most ridiculous caricatures of society- this your best?

[Loismustdie 0]

I had high hopes for Bush, I was actually just a bit happy to see Bush elected, mainly because it meant his opponents weren't. But he's got a long, documented history of lying to us about the Middle East, and the terrorists have been telling us for years one consistent story -- even before 9/11: get out of our problems or it will come back to bite you. Once 9/11 happened, Bush didn't want to admit his policies were a failure, so he did the classic misdirection, and changed it from being the fault of the government ("it was because of our terrible Mideast policy") to being the fault of the American people ("it was because you are free and secular"). Then they added the "if you don't believe us, you are unpatriotic" line, which is the biggest bunch of BS around. I think making the world hate the US is unpatriotic. I think sending our children to die in an unwinnable war is unpatriotic. I think questioning our right to question him is unpatriotic. Wiretapping the phones of innocent people is unpatriotic. Anyone who loves this country would not treat it the way George W Bush has.

Now, we cannot wire tap and everyday is a bullet in the terrorist arsenal. Brilliant!! Unwinnable? Children are going to school, people have electricity, commerce is taking place, elections as well... it takes time, but this is no loss at this time, and it is far from unwinnable. Get used to it, our presence in Iraq is just getting started. Nobody makes anybody hate anybody- we have a world that largely would like to stick it's head in the sand about EVERYTHING, that largely blames the US if it doesn't get involved because it is powerful enough to get involved and then blames the US when it does get involved. Sure, people on the sidelines can have there opinions, but do they MATTER? Not one bit. Anyone who doesn't see how our involvement in the middle east is unavoidable doesn't understand basic survival. Past the policies, guess what? We are the infidel, to be killed because of our way of life. Policies just gives them a red blanket to wave at the bull. Basic survival when an entity threatens your life is this: take it to them. Don't let them bring it here. It's literally What to do about your violent enemies 101.

[JustDoIt 10]

Now if this were BG, I wouldn't even have to spell this out so slowly and using such small words, but you just proved my point. Lois said Democrats don't care if their candidates are liars. I said Republicans don't either, and pointed out three egregious lies from Republicans. Your response is that yes, you acknowledge that these are lies and that your candidates are liars, but you don't mind it at all. Their lies are fine with you. I scored the goal, but you definitely get the assist here. Good job.I wish this were a joke account of Suited's, but probably not.

LOL Nice Try, have to play the old Bush card. You should have typed slower!

[JustDoIt 10]

LOL Nice Try, have to play the old Bush card. You should have typed slower!

[Southern Buddhist 1]

So wait, are you now switching your: "It wasn't that bad" defense to a "Bush is evil" defense?Or is this now a "Oh yea, well your guy's got problems too" defense?Or is it a "Republicans are stupid" defense?I must say, I am shocked that you would claim the buddha's teaching and use hyperbole with such ease. But most buddhist are like this, I heard the muslims are the worse, but it's not a real big deal, besides your side is too dumb to see why they are so dumb.

Damn, you and Lois must both be having bowel problems today -- extra mean-spriited. Either that or nobody recognized that I just changed the party name, but more or less repeated Lois's post. Okay when he does it, but unacceptable for a Dem because it's "hyperbole?"My "defense," in a phrase, is that Republicans complaining about lies is the pot calling the kettle black. Or, if you prefer, it's pointing out the mote in your neighbor's eye while ignoring the plank in your own. I'm willing to admit that both sides have planks and are stumbling around blind, but Republicans can have proveable lies pointed out to them and they continue to defend the truthiness of their candidates, and at the same time, implicitly boast of their candidates' lying, saying "Yeah, we lied, get over it."I would reverse your statement as well and say that I'm shocked -- shocked -- that you would claim jesus's teaching and support a guy whose conversion story is faked and who doesn't support the poor and who favors pre-emptive war, but most christians are like this. But reversed statements don't seem popular with Republicans. "Most Buddhists?" How big is your sample size exactly?But really, this post is below your usual standards, just tossing playground taunts of "dumb, dumb" around. I'm disappointed.

Yeah, I think I took your point away, and just dunked in your face.

Not so much, in that you passed the buck on Bush and called McCain nutless.

Then you're blind. If it wasn't, why fire him from the campaign and compare him to Ferraro? If it wasn't, why twist in the wind, trying to distance yourself from his comments? The pastor is a race baiter, straight up, It's obvious, it's blatant,

Then post something. That's all hblask is asking.

[Balloon guy 158]

Damn, you and Lois must both be having bowel problems today -- extra mean-spriited. Either that or nobody recognized that I just changed the party name, but more or less repeated Lois's post. Okay when he does it, but unacceptable for a Dem because it's "hyperbole?"My "defense," in a phrase, is that Republicans complaining about lies is the pot calling the kettle black. Or, if you prefer, it's pointing out the mote in your neighbor's eye while ignoring the plank in your own. I'm willing to admit that both sides have planks and are stumbling around blind, but Republicans can have proveable lies pointed out to them and they continue to defend the truthiness of their candidates, and at the same time, implicitly boast of their candidates' lying, saying "Yeah, we lied, get over it."I would reverse your statement as well and say that I'm shocked -- shocked -- that you would claim jesus's teaching and support a guy whose conversion story is faked and who doesn't support the poor and who favors pre-emptive war, but most christians are like this. But reversed statements don't seem popular with Republicans. "Most Buddhists?" How big is your sample size exactly?But really, this post is below your usual standards, just tossing playground taunts of "dumb, dumb" around. I'm disappointed.

I guess you missed my tounge in cheek attempt to be funny. I was making the point that you were trying to change the argument away from defending Obama to one of attacking Bush. Then I used those same bad habits ot debate and made a single sentance using each method in order. This was meant to be light hearted.sorry you missed it.I'm really quite funny, and I prefer funny jokes over politics anyday.

[JustDoIt 10]

Can you post a quote that you find racist? I'm seriously asking, trying to be informed, because this controversy baffles me. Because I've listened to it a couple times, and read the transcripts, and I agree it's inflammatory, but I don't see the racism. It's not like I have love for the "inflammatory preacher" types -- Jesse Jackson is a charltan who plays the race card for profit, and Al Sharpton is one of the most racist people in the country. But I really don't see it in this case.

Fine, you don't see it.

[checkymcfold 0]

did you guys really read or listen to obama's speech about reverend wright and race? is the human capacity for understanding nuance really that sadly destroyed in this country, or are you guys willingly blinding yourselves?i'm honestly saddened by the fact that no one is actually responding to the content of obama's speech, and that 90% of the responses in this thread are altogether vapid political posturing.here is a transcript of his speech for those who may not have read it:http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/9100.html

[Nimue1995 1]

did you guys really read or listen to obama's speech about reverend wright and race? is the human capacity for understanding nuance really that sadly destroyed in this country, or are you guys willingly blinding yourselves?i'm honestly saddened by the fact that no one is actually responding to the content of obama's speech, and that 90% of the responses in this thread are altogether vapid political posturing.here is a transcript of his speech for those who may not have read it:http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/9100.html

This is the man I support for President. If you think this is an issue that can be swept under the rug and not bubble up inconveniently at an inopportune time then you're blind. It's there and at least Obama acknowledges that. It might be politically unwise but humanly it's the truth. Maybe we need a President that can squarely face that truth instead of running from it. Seems to me in that speech Obama did just that.

[Southern Buddhist 1]

I guess you missed my tounge in cheek attempt to be funny. I was making the point that you were trying to change the argument away from defending Obama to one of attacking Bush. Then I used those same bad habits ot debate and made a single sentance using each method in order. This was meant to be light hearted.sorry you missed it.I'm really quite funny, and I prefer funny jokes over politics anyday.

Text is hard to read for humor. I'll take the blame for having missed it. You know, you just have such a darn big reputation to uphold...Truth is, I've been more political on here than I have been in years elsewhere. Politics in the US is so anger-based, and I just don't feel that way. I believe what I believe and I vote for who I vote for, but I don't think yelling about who's right and who's wrong really changes anyone's mind. Personally, I'd rather discuss Shakespeare, but nobody else does. [i took a screenwriting class, and every time the instructor gave a writing concept, everyone cited examples of it. The rest of the class was citing movies that had all come out in the past three to five years. I kept citing Bogart and other 1940s movies and Shakespeare plays, usually to blank looks.]

[Nimue1995 1]

Text is hard to read for humor. I'll take the blame for having missed it. You know, you just have such a darn big reputation to uphold...Truth is, I've been more political on here than I have been in years elsewhere. Politics in the US is so anger-based, and I just don't feel that way. I believe what I believe and I vote for who I vote for, but I don't think yelling about who's right and who's wrong really changes anyone's mind. Personally, I'd rather discuss Shakespeare, but nobody else does. [i took a screenwriting class, and every time the instructor gave a writing concept, everyone cited examples of it. The rest of the class was citing movies that had all come out in the past three to five years. I kept citing Bogart and other 1940s movies and Shakespeare plays, usually to blank looks.]

I like the old John Wayne and Jimmy Stewart movies myself. My husband loves John Wayne so I think we have probably every movie he ever did that's available on DVD. I took a class on Shakespeare in the 7th grade but really haven't studied him since except to see some of the bad movies made from his plays. However I have done a great deal of study on Elizabethan England so we might have something in common to talk about on the Off-topic forum

[SlapStick 0]

did you guys really read or listen to obama's speech about reverend wright and race? is the human capacity for understanding nuance really that sadly destroyed in this country, or are you guys willingly blinding yourselves?i'm honestly saddened by the fact that no one is actually responding to the content of obama's speech, and that 90% of the responses in this thread are altogether vapid political posturing.here is a transcript of his speech for those who may not have read it:http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/9100.html

We are responding to each other, like normal debates tend to go. Nice of you to drop by and be saddened by us.I've made 2 quotes on his reactions.

[Southern Buddhist 1]

From a Roland Martin blog, here are some of Wright's very own words:

The full story behind Rev. Jeremiah Wright’s 9/11 sermonPosted: 10:09 AM ETAs this whole sordid episode regarding the sermons of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright has played out over the last week, I wanted to understand what he ACTUALLY said in this speech. I’ve been saying all week on CNN that context is important, and I just wanted to know what the heck is going on.I have now actually listened to the sermon Rev. Wright gave after September 11 titled, “The Day of Jerusalem’s Fall.” It was delivered on Sept. 16, 2001.One of the most controversial statements in this sermon was when he mentioned “chickens coming home to roost.” He was actually quoting Edward Peck, former U.S. Ambassador to Iraq and deputy director of President Reagan’s terrorism task force, who was speaking on FOX News. That’s what he told the congregation.He was quoting Peck as saying that America’s foreign policy has put the nation in peril:“We took this country by terror away from the Sioux, the Apache, Arikara, the Comanche, the Arapaho, the Navajo. Terrorism.“We took Africans away from their country to build our way of ease and kept them enslaved and living in fear. Terrorism.“We bombed Grenada and killed innocent civilians, babies, non-military personnel.“We bombed the black civilian community of Panama with stealth bombers and killed unarmed teenage and toddlers, pregnant mothers and hard working fathers.“We bombed Qaddafi’s home, and killed his child. Blessed are they who bash your children’s head against the rock.“We bombed Iraq. We killed unarmed civilians trying to make a living. We bombed a plant in Sudan to pay back for the attack on our embassy, killed hundreds of hard working people, mothers and fathers who left home to go that day not knowing that they’d never get back home.“We bombed Hiroshima. We bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon and we never batted an eye.“Kids playing in the playground. Mothers picking up children after school. Civilians, not soldiers, people just trying to make it day by day.“We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff that we have done overseas is now brought right back into our own front yards. America’s chickens are coming home to roost.“Violence begets violence. Hatred begets hatred. And terrorism begets terrorism. A white ambassador said that y’all, not a black militant. Not a reverend who preaches about racism. An ambassador whose eyes are wide open and who is trying to get us to wake up and move away from this dangerous precipice upon which we are now poised. The ambassador said the people we have wounded don’t have the military capability we have. But they do have individuals who are willing to die and take thousands with them. And we need to come to grips with that.”He went on to describe seeing the photos of the aftermath of 9/11 because he was in Newark, N.J., when the planes struck. After turning on the TV and seeing the second plane slam into one of the twin towers, he spoke passionately about what if you never got a chance to say hello to your family again.“What is the state of your family?” he asked.And then he told his congregation that he loved them and asked the church to tell each other they loved themselves.His sermon thesis:1. This is a time for self-examination of ourselves and our families.2. This is a time for social transformation (then he went on to say they won’t put me on PBS or national cable for what I’m about to say. Talk about prophetic!)“We have got to change the way we have been doing things as a society,” he said.Wright then said we can’t stop messing over people and thinking they can’t touch us. He said we may need to declare war on racism, injustice, and greed, instead of war on other countries.“Maybe we need to declare war on AIDS. In five minutes the Congress found $40 billion to rebuild New York and the families that died in sudden death, do you think we can find the money to make medicine available for people who are dying a slow death? Maybe we need to declare war on the nation’s healthcare system that leaves the nation’s poor with no health coverage? Maybe we need to declare war on the mishandled educational system and provide quality education for everybody, every citizen, based on their ability to learn, not their ability to pay. This is a time for social transformation.”3. This is time to tell God thank you for all that he has provided and that he gave him and others another chance to do His will.By the way, nowhere in this sermon did he said “God damn America.” I’m not sure which sermon that came from.This doesn’t explain anything away, nor does it absolve Wright of using the N-word, but what it does do is add an accurate perspective to this conversation.The point that I have always made as a journalist is that our job is to seek the truth, and not the partial truth.I am also listening to the other sermons delivered by Rev. Wright that have been the subject of controversy.And let me be clear: Where I believe he was wrong and not justified in what he said based upon the facts, I will say so. But where the facts support his argument, that will also be said.So stay tuned.

[hblask 1]

Then you're blind. If it wasn't, why fire him from the campaign and compare him to Ferraro? If it wasn't, why twist in the wind, trying to distance yourself from his comments? The pastor is a race baiter, straight up, NOBODY in any news media is actually dumb enough to argue that he's not. It's obvious, it's blatant, again NOBODY is coming out and saying,"What's the big deal?" I am surprised at you. Meanwhile, the media has him squirming over his "typical white woman" remarks. This shit is funny, it's not sad, or an indication of the direction of society, it's funny, in that if you are raised around, spend time around, taught by, nurtured by, then subsequently hire, racists, guess what? Somewhere along the way you become a racist. This is the type of thing that causes super delegates to jump ship, and since Clinton is even worse in her own special way it's smooth sailing for McCain. I think for the Democratic party the horrific part is.. this is your best and brightest? You consistently prop up the most ridiculous caricatures of society- this your best?

So you don't have a specific racist quote, then?Hint: political expedience <> reality.Seriously, I love having reverse racism exposed, but this is a media circus with no basis in reality. I don't want Obama to be president, but I'd hate to lose a (theoretical) good candidate in the future over something so stupid.

[Nimue1995 1]

Just goes to show what happens when people believe what the media has fed them instead of looking for themselves. We've become lazy voters willing to be spoonfed what to believe. And we will pay for that laziness in that we'll get the government that we deserve.