Wsop Step 6 Sit And Go

[copernicus 0]

1st place is WSOP entry plus expenses, 2d and 3d both $1,500. All 3 players have been very aggressive since 4th was eliminated, only 1 in 10 hands or so get to the flop unraised, and BB never has gotten a walk. Very few hands shown down of course, so raising ranges have to be assumed to be pretty wide. Both players are solid on Sharkscope. PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (3 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)Button (t6834)SB (t10908)Hero (t9258)Preflop: Hero is BB with 8, 9. 1 fold, SB raises to t1200, Hero calls t800.Flop: (t2050) A, 8, A(2 players)SB bets t1600, Hero raises to t4000, SB raises to t9683, Hero ?

[jjgoldy5 0]

1st place is WSOP entry plus expenses, 2d and 3d both $1,500. All 3 players have been very aggressive since 4th was eliminated, only 1 in 10 hands or so get to the flop unraised, and BB never has gotten a walk. Very few hands shown down of course, so raising ranges have to be assumed to be pretty wide. Both players are solid on Sharkscope. PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (3 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)Button (t6834)SB (t10908)Hero (t9258)Preflop: Hero is BB with 8, 9. 1 fold, SB raises to t1200, Hero calls t800.Flop: (t2050) A, 8, A(2 players)SB bets t1600, Hero raises to t4000, SB raises to t9683, Hero ?

Hyper Aggressive players will view your raise on the flop as a steal, but I don't think you're ahead enough here to go with this without a strong read.I dunno though...I'd ask Copernicus.

[gobears 0]

The flop bet by villain seems large if he had an ace. An ace bets smaller to entice a call. Once you raise, villain should realize that he has little FE left in the hand. Either an ace or a FD is in his range. 4458 if you fold or 18K/0 if you showdown.I discount the ace so I have to call.

[copernicus 0]

I dunno though...I'd ask Copernicus.

Yeah, where is he when you need him!

[jjgoldy5 0]

The flop bet by villain seems large if he had an ace. An ace bets smaller to entice a call. Once you raise, villain should realize that he has little FE left in the hand. Either an ace or a FD is in his range. 4458 if you fold or 18K/0 if you showdown.I discount the ace so I have to call.

How about pairs 99+

[LJB723 0]

Folding leaves you ~4000 and perhaps just enough FE if you become a pushbot. I think the SB either has the A or a fd with overs to your 8, which you're obv not in great shape against. You need an iron read to call here. I fold.

[jjgoldy5 0]

I agree, I have to discount the A from his range...The problem with your hand is this.... its a blind battle, so any line you take is going to get less respect than usual.Your raise on the flop looks real fishy, but if you just call that looks like you're just floating a scary flop and are going to be in a sick spot on the turn when he fires again thinking that you're floating.With that said, I probably flat call in position on the flop and then reevaluate on the turn based on his action

[Sheiky 0]

This is a gay spot, but i don't think you're like ever ahead here.I mean, he has to think he has virtualy no fold equity with his flop 3-bet, and unless he's been backed into a tough spot with 87 or something, i don't see what he's doing this with that we're ahead of. Worse 8s and low PPs i suppose, but i don't think this is a complete air bluff enough(by that i mean hardly ever) to call because i think you're hand is at the very bottom of his value 3-betting range.

[jmbreslin 0]

This is probably the closest the rest of us are going to get to the top 3 in Step 6...Tough spot because I think any PP could be in his range here. He's not going to put you on an 8 or A, and you probably would have reraised a good PP, so he could be putting you on a steal and think his 22 is good. I'd also discount the A in his hand, so I'd basically put his range at 22-KK. And you're right in the middle of that range, behind 5 pairs and ahead of 6. Problem is if you include the FD in his range, especially hearts higher than 8, he has a good number of outs if you're indeed ahead here.I probably fold and go into shortstack ninja mode.

[jjgoldy5 0]

This is a gay spot, but i don't think you're like ever ahead here.I mean, he has to think he has virtualy no fold equity with his flop 3-bet, and unless he's been backed into a tough spot with 87 or something, i don't see what he's doing this with that we're ahead of. Worse 8s and low PPs i suppose, but i don't think this is a complete air bluff enough(by that i mean hardly ever) to call because i think you're hand is at the very bottom of his value 3-betting range.

This is going to get confusing. But let me take a really ugly shot at trying to illustrate something... a higher level of thinking.The villain in the hand knows that Cop knows that the villain must think he has no fold equity. Therefore, the villain knows that Cop will respect a 3-bet shove on the flop because Cop has to think that the villain knows he has no fold equity. Whew. Did that make any sense whatsoever?If you saw the Sunday Million where TJ bounced out with 4 high... he was using this line of thinking, but unfortunately his villain was stuck on level 1 thinking.I'm not saying thats whats going on here, and I'd rather get my chips in on the aggressive side, with me being the one pushing the action than just hoping that I'm ahead here - but you cant always just be stuck thinking inside a level 1 box.Your stack is still big enough for restealing, squeezing (maybe), and ninja'ing the short stack.

[gobears 0]

The idea of a higher PP than eights is a big possibility also but if Cop has an ace, then villain is just pushing into needing to hit his two outer. If Cop is bluffing, then check/calling turn or river to allow Cop to bluff turn/river might be a play that villain would make instead as he'd be WA/WB. It seems that if villain is good, shoving with a PP higher than an eight only gets called if he's WB or if Cop is on a FD. One thing is that the table has been very aggro which lends itself to Cop being ahead on the flop.

[AimHigher 0]

What is your image at the table? Have you raised his continuation bets recently or frequently? Has he been caught 3 betting light? etc etcAlso, once you raise his continuation bet, haven't you basically decided you're going with the hand? You only have 4k behind.

[Sheiky 0]

This is going to get confusing. But let me take a really ugly shot at trying to illustrate something... a higher level of thinking.The villain in the hand knows that Cop knows that the villain must think he has no fold equity. Therefore, the villain knows that Cop will respect a 3-bet shove on the flop because Cop has to think that the villain knows he has no fold equity. Whew. Did that make any sense whatsoever?If you saw the Sunday Million where TJ bounced out with 4 high... he was using this line of thinking, but unfortunately his villain was stuck on level 1 thinking.I'm not saying thats whats going on here, and I'd rather get my chips in on the aggressive side, with me being the one pushing the action than just hoping that I'm ahead here - but you cant always just be stuck thinking inside a level 1 box.Your stack is still big enough for restealing, squeezing (maybe), and ninja'ing the short stack.

I remember the TJ hand you mention, i can't remember the stack sizes but they were deeper than this weren't they? It's a point to consider, but i really don't think anyone acctualy thinks that high in a SNG against an unknown.Also, i don't think people should discount an ace from his range either.I don't think i like the call PF as well, i'm suprised no one's mentioned that yet,

[Sheiky 0]

The idea of a higher PP than eights is a big possibility also but if Cop has an ace, then villain is just pushing into needing to hit his two outer. If Cop is bluffing, then check/calling turn or river to allow Cop to bluff turn/river might be a play that villain would make instead as he'd be WA/WB. It seems that if villain is good, shoving with a PP higher than an eight only gets called if he's WB or if Cop is on a FD. One thing is that the table has been very aggro which lends itself to Cop being ahead on the flop.

I disagree, given his raise on the flop i think Cop is far more likely to have an 8 that an ace here, and with so little behind, i think the villain is way way way more likely to be value shoving with 99+ or a good 8 over a stone cold bluff.Think about it, villain has 99-QQ here, he raises, Cop calls.AA8, cop checks, villain bets 3/4 pot which he is likely to do with this hand, Cop raises-Lets think, - There's a higher statistical chance he has an 8 rather than an A because there are two on the board.- Why would Cop have an ace PF? Again, if he had a AT-AK, he's re-raising pre, lower aces he's mucking, the only aces we would possibly call with PF are A5-9 suited.- Now we're on the flop, why would he raise with an ace on this dry board? With the stacks as they are, the villain would probably be more scared if you flat called than if you raise. I'm not saying that you shouldn't raise with an ace, or that you wouldn't raise with an ace, but from his point of view, i think that you raising instead of calling is going to make him think you have an 8 way more than an ace, which i agree with given how you played the hand.

[jjgoldy5 0]

I remember the TJ hand you mention, i can't remember the stack sizes but they were deeper than this weren't they? It's a point to consider, but i really don't think anyone acctualy thinks that high in a SNG against an unknown.Also, i don't think people should discount an ace from his range either.I don't think i like the call PF as well, i'm suprised no one's mentioned that yet,

The guy bet about 1M on the turn and TJ moved in for less than 3M if I remember correctly.

[Snake Plissken 0]

I think this is really ugly. I think you're behind most of the times here. But it is hard to say. I think that he'd play an ace, almost any pocket pair and FD this way. I reached the step 6 (started out in step 2) and registered for an EPT Warsaw sng. I suspect you'd call my sharkscope stats fairly solid and when we were down to four players (and a guaranteed $1000) I started to play like a madman for the win. My point is that you'll quite often face opponents like me who doesnt have a BR for a step 6 buy in playing madman poker since we're in a win-win situation. So based on this, I'd call if he's a solid low-mid limit player and I'd fold if he's a solid mid-high limit player. Anyways, what did you do and how did it work out? You win it?

[copernicus 0]

Interesting discussion. I'll put my thinking and the results in white in case anyone else looks at it, and comment on some of the responses.I think the preflop call is solid. I have position, hes on a very wide range and I can almost be assured of a continuation bet which gives me implied odds for hitting a 30% pair which is going to be good a lot of the time, or give me drawing odds if he CBs small and I may be behind. It also has huge hand potential to stack him.When he bet the flop so big I immediately discounted an A to a very low probability. Top trips are a big favorite even over my unlikely flush draw and he almost certainly bets smaller to look like a continuation bet. If he has an 99-JJ I dont think he risks getting outdrawn by my potential 6 outers or FD and almost certainly pushes those. Underpairs, being WA/WB bet smaller also. So I put him pretty solidly on KK, QQ or the flush draw, obviously many more of those than the pairs. So I decided to play as if his cards were a face up flush draw.Ive got three possible plays vs a flush draw. Re-raise all in: It leaves him barely short of calling odds for a naked FD but he could also have as many as 15 outs to my fairly obvious 8, so theres a decent chance that im putting myself all in as a slight underdog.Call and fold to a heart on the turn: This was my first inclination but when I thought about it more I became concerned about how many scare cards there really are and how often I could be bluffed off the winning hand.Raise an amount that shows Ive got a real hand, pricing out the 1 card flush draw and a 12 outer, and threaten him with not having calling odds to take another card off if the turn misses. If he comes over the top then am I really sure hes on a flush draw and would consider folding? If so this would be a huge mistake and I should just call, but I was sure he didnt have an A, so this is the one I opted for. He calls with 9h 5h and gg me when the turn is the 3h.I beat myself up a little about getting it all in here vs calling and seeing the turn, but I ICMd it this afternoon and if I didnt make any math errors then getting it all in against a 12 or 9 outer is a better line than call and fold to a heart or two overcards, push to a single non heart overcard. So, after 20 hours of thinking about how close I was (2d time, losing to a 2 outer for a Caribbean Adventure package), Ive come back to thinking it was the right play given the right read.I'll still listen to counterarguments though...I plan on being in another Step 6 by the weekend! $1500 for 500 FPPs isnt anything to cry about....or is it!By the way, just to show how low variance I think the Steps are, with that single FPP entry here are the steps I played in: 1,2,3,4,4,4,5,4,5,6 I did have a good run of cards in the last Step 4 but in all of the others it was pretty standard Sit n Go stuff, trying to abuse each bubble and going into push bot mode when short stacked, and never having a very big chip lead over at least one player. I never felt really out of contention for moving up a step except in the first Step 5 where I was short stacked early and was very happy with only dropping back to a Step 4.

[Farmboyz 0]

I haven't read the white, yet. (Good idea, tho.)I'm don't think I like your flop play here, Cop. I don't mind the pre-flop call, it's a decent hand HU. Especially, against all the aggresion. But, your raise to 4000 is only a bit more than min-raise. And, it comes off scared, to a solid opponent. He's probably thinking you're afraid of putting your stack in, and is pushing you around. If I thought my eights were good (or if I thought he had a flush draw), I'd have it all in there. If I was worried about an Ace or bigger pair, I'd call. Wait and see what he does on the next street, before committing too many chips.

[mk 11]

i didn't look at results, but i think raising the flop is horrid if you don't want to play for stacks. i would just call and expect him to slow down with any hand that i beat as well as some hands that are ahead of me (like 99-KK) because he would have to fear the ace.also, why the f are you playing this? the value of $2100 applied to 3 $650s or 2 $1050s >>>>>>>>>>> 1 Step 6 stt, where you are guaranteed to be playing 6-7 of the best tournament players in the world like mig, d_ry, brynkenney, etc.

[copernicus 0]

i didn't look at results, but i think raising the flop is horrid if you don't want to play for stacks. i would just call and expect him to slow down with any hand that i beat as well as some hands that are ahead of me (like 99-KK) because he would have to fear the ace.also, why the f are you playing this? the value of $2100 applied to 3 $650s or 2 $1050s >>>>>>>>>>> 1 Step 6 stt, where you are guaranteed to be playing 6-7 of the best tournament players in the world like mig, d_ry, brynkenney, etc.

You have to play it.I did want to play for stacks, I was sure I was ahead and he was on a draw..it was mig, and he drew out on a horrible play ICM wise.

[mk 11]

You have to play it.I did want to play for stacks, I was sure I was ahead and he was on a draw..it was mig, and he drew out on a horrible play ICM wise.

I figured it must've been someone of that caliber/bankroll who wouldn't care about anything except the win once it got down to 3-handed.

[copernicus 0]

I figured it must've been someone of that caliber/bankroll who wouldn't care about anything except the win once it got down to 3-handed.

The prize is the same 1500 for 2d and 3rd, so obviously you only care about the win! Really though, with 6th place at 500, 5 and 4 worth 1000 and 1st worth nearly 15k playing for the win is mandatory. the problem here is that a FD is not correct ICM wise here unless the message he took from my bet is that I didnt want to commit and was just CBing, but mig is too good a player to not realize he really didnt have any FE. The only rationale I have for his play is that hes a MTT player and doesnt know ICM that well.