2 Girls, 1 Stuck (fr) (5/10)

[AimHigher 0]

The idiot is just going to miss a lot with two unpaired cards. The thinking player is going to fold a lot of hands that can't beat a jack but do in fact beat Cobalt's.

What about the button? he is behind Cobalt too. Maybe I am nitty, I thought not C-betting here was standard.Edit: If it wasn't a 4 way pot I would C-bet this flop all day long.

[David_Nicoson 1]

What about the button? he is behind Cobalt too. Maybe I am nitty, I thought not C-betting here was standard.Edit: If it wasn't a 4 way pot I would C-bet this flop all day long.

I'd forget about the third caller, honestly. That makes it borderline. It's a pretty good flop for us, though. It's rainbow. It doesn't have a cluster of broadway cards that make two-pair and straight draws.

[AimHigher 0]

I'd forget about the third caller, honestly. That makes it borderline. It's a pretty good flop for us, though. It's rainbow. It doesn't have a cluster of broadway cards that make two-pair and straight draws.

C-betting here must be correct in the higher games you guys play. I think in the limits I play I would still get calls from hands that beat mine but don't beat a jack.

[Acid_Knight 2]

If he has played with Cobalt, he will realize Cobalt is not going to bet into this flop with a hand that AJ beats, because there is no way Cobalt is going to make a C-bet here with two people behind and air.

I agree with David that Cobalt has to be betting sometimes with hands like 88 or AK/AQ here. The board is really dry. There is no flush draw and there are only a few straight draws, all of them very low.A c-bet as small as Cobalt's standard c-bet should succeed here often enough against the right opponents to make this profitable. You do make good points about why he shouldn't bet it and it is close, but a flop that dry is one of the few flops that I would c-bet with 3 opponents, even when I'm OOP to two of them.

[AimHigher 0]

I agree with David that Cobalt has to be betting sometimes with hands like 88 or AK/AQ here. The board is really dry. There is no flush draw and there are only a few straight draws, all of them very low.A c-bet as small as Cobalt's standard c-bet should succeed here often enough against the right opponents to make this profitable. You do make good points about why he shouldn't bet it and it is close, but a flop that dry is one of the few flops that I would c-bet with 3 opponents, even when I'm OOP to two of them.

Do you think that a lot of the problems in this hand come up because Cobalt has under repped his hand? If he bets this flop harder his opponent is less likely to interpret it as a C-bet.

[Acid_Knight 2]

Do you think that a lot of the problems in this hand come up because Cobalt has under repped his hand? If he bets this flop harder his opponent is less likely to interpret it as a C-bet.

The point of a c-bet is that it's supposed to look the same whether or not you miss the flop. It should be based on the # of opponents you have in the hand, their propensity to call your bets and the flop texture.If Cobalt's playing well, he should be betting the same when he misses this flop as he does when he flops top set.

[krup24 0]

Do you think that a lot of the problems in this hand come up because Cobalt has under repped his hand? If he bets this flop harder his opponent is less likely to interpret it as a C-bet.

i do but i'm beginning to quesiton my thinking

[AimHigher 0]

The point of a c-bet is that it's supposed to look the same whether or not you miss the flop. It should be based on the # of opponents you have in the hand, their propensity to call your bets and the flop texture.If Cobalt's playing well, he should be betting the same when he misses this flop as he does when he flops top set.

Right, I thought about that because obviously we are using c-bets to blend our bluffs and our value bets. Can I ask you about bet sizing? Is the main reason Cobalt is betting half the pot on this flop is because it's so dry and there are considerably less hands he beats that he can extract value from?

[tskillz187 0]

i do but i'm beginning to quesiton my thinking

Meh, I agree with you. I think Cobalt should C-bet bigger as his standard C-bet. I understand he mixes it up based on texture, villains, and # of villains but C-betting so small forces you to make a lot of more difficult decisions.Cobalt seems to do very well so I'm assuming he makes tough decisions better than his opponents do, but I tend to think it's a very tough way to play. You have to be ready for heavy action from weird spots because your c-bet is so small. I want me c-bet to encourage folding, not encourage action, because I usually don't have a hand that can stand a lot of action. It seems like Cobalt's scenario is that his c-bet may induce more action and he will make the right tough decisions when he gets it.

[Acid_Knight 2]

Can I ask you about bet sizing? Is the main reason Cobalt is betting half the pot on this flop is because it's so dry and there are considerably less hands he beats that he can extract value from?

Meh, I agree with you. I think Cobalt should C-bet bigger as his standard C-bet. I understand he mixes it up based on texture, villains, and # of villains but C-betting so small forces you to make a lot of more difficult decisions.Cobalt seems to do very well so I'm assuming he makes tough decisions better than his opponents do, but I tend to think it's a very tough way to play. You have to be ready for heavy action from weird spots because your c-bet is so small. I want me c-bet to encourage folding, not encourage action, because I usually don't have a hand that can stand a lot of action. It seems like Cobalt's scenario is that his c-bet may induce more action and he will make the right tough decisions when he gets it.

I think Cobalt makes smaller c-bets because:1. It allows him more options on how to play streets post flop since all of the bet intervals are smaller2. It allows him to steal pots more cheaply when he misses3. Players at higher limits are typically thinking about hand ranges more, so betting a higher % of the pot to convince them you have a hand isn't always necessary4. He plays better post flop than his opponents do and his smaller raises often induce raises that opponents might not otherwise makeI do tend to agree with Tim though in that Cobalt certainly finds himself making many tougher decisions as a result of his choices in bet sizing. The bets are smaller and in one vein, look weaker, which means that his opponents can raise the bets to test Cobalt for a cheaper price. This works in Cobalt's favor when he's hitting flops and hurts him when he is missing them if we assume that his opponents are raising with the same frequency. I guess that with all things being equal, it's just a balance that you have to strike. I tend to like making slightly larger bets with all of my hands because I get more value when I hit and make it harder for them to raise me when I miss because their bet intervals must be larger. With 100BB stacks, if I am betting 6BBs into an 8BB pot post flop, then my opponents should realistically be raising me to 18-24BBs if they choose to raise. When Cobalt bets 3BBs into a 6BB pot, his opponent can raise him to 9-12BBs and put similar pressure on him while risking roughly half of the amount of chips they'd need to risk if his intervals were larger. It's really not wrong, but it is a different style than you see with most people.

[David_Nicoson 1]

We always talk about c-bets compared to the size of the pot, but their size compared to the stacks is also significant. If we're trying to stack AJ with our QQ here, what's the hurry to get all the money in by the turn?

[Acid_Knight 2]

We always talk about c-bets compared to the size of the pot, but their size compared to the stacks is also significant. If we're trying to stack AJ with our QQ here, what's the hurry to get all the money in by the turn?

We'd like to get the money in before he spikes his 3rd Jack on the turn.C'mon dude, basic poker theory. Get the money in when we're ahead

[tskillz187 0]

We always talk about c-bets compared to the size of the pot, but their size compared to the stacks is also significant. If we're trying to stack AJ with our QQ here, what's the hurry to get all the money in by the turn?

Is that our goal? I think I lose money to AJ here, if he takes the line that BB did with AJ. I think I make bad folds this way, I'm sure Cobalt is used to it, but I wouldn't reccomend C-betting on the small side for the avg player. I mean how are we getting AJ's money in this hand? Call this flop C/R then call turn/call river? That's scarier than how I like to play.

[David_Nicoson 1]

Is that our goal? I think I lose money to AJ here, if he takes the line that BB did with AJ. I think I make bad folds this way, I'm sure Cobalt is used to it, but I wouldn't reccomend C-betting on the small side for the avg player.

If the smart player takes that line with AJ, then he beat me. He beat me fair and square. Pay that man his money. I don't, however, think he has AJ. If the player that we know is very loose has AJ, then we reasonably have a chance to stack him.

[CobaltBlue 662]

I think Acid's homed in on reasons that I go lighter with my c-bets. Y'all are probably correct that some opponents might perceive the smaller amounts as weakness, but if they're paying attention for any amount of time, they'll start to realize that that's an incorrect assumption. Yes, they can get away with raising less and forcing me to tough decisions, but I don't mind that. By betting smaller, I can get away with 3-betting them with air on occasion...which becomes a progressively more risky and difficult thing to do when you're c-betting a larger percentage of the pot.I believe that y'all have gone through a lot of the thought process that I went through in the actual hand. I could only think of one hand that I beat (AJ) and I considered that a small part of his range given all of the variables. Additionally, the stack sizes and positions were somewhat awkward. If I 3-bet (or even call), it'd be extremely difficult to get action from AJ. Also, for the record, I would be c-betting here with AK/88 some portion of the time.Unfortunately, my read wasn't quite as good as I thought. I folded and the CO did also. I asked the BB about it later and he answered, "AJ...good fold." Therefore, I'm not sure whether to give my opponent for being savvy as much as clueless. I claimed "TT". He explained that he was trying to get action from the CO with what he believed was probably a crappier jack (the CO would've likely gone broke with TPNK).That said, I still don't hate a fold here based on ranges.

[Acid_Knight 2]

Unfortunately, my read wasn't quite as good as I thought. I folded and the CO did also. I asked the BB about it later and he answered, "AJ...good fold." Therefore, I'm not sure whether to give my opponent for being savvy as much as clueless. I claimed "TT". He explained that he was trying to get action from the CO with what he believed was probably a crappier jack (the CO would've likely gone broke with TPNK).That said, I still don't hate a fold here based on ranges.

So, basically everything was analyzed properly and he just overplayed his hand it would seem since you correctly read strength in his raise and he had probably the only made hand in his range that makes this play that we beat.

[Royal_Tour 0]

So, basically everything was analyzed properly and he just overplayed his hand it would seem since you correctly read strength in his raise and he had probably the only made hand in his range that makes this play that we beat.

No, basically I'm correct again. :)I think on level 4 warp zones.

[Royal_Tour 0]

c/c with AJ here is horrible.BB line of thinking wiht AJ is as follows. C/R. hope cobalt folds and c/o calls. if cobalt doesnt fold, re-eveluate but prepared to give up the hand to cobalt.

Unfortunately, my read wasn't quite as good as I thought. I folded and the CO did also. I asked the BB about it later and he answered, "AJ...good fold." Therefore, I'm not sure whether to give my opponent for being savvy as much as clueless. I claimed "TT". He explained that he was trying to get action from the CO with what he believed was probably a crappier jack (the CO would've likely gone broke with TPNK).