biff_goods 0 Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 5 handed NLHE .5-.10 game. 7-2 game also being played. Villain is a very very very bad player. Only plays the cards in front of him and very little experience in betting patterns and poker theory.....but.........he thinks he is the best player at the game and will frequently tell you. We have nicknamed him the "bluff police" because every time you flop a big hand and bet he looks you dead in the eye and says, "You look pretty confident......I call" Hero is UTG with 99 and raises to .25. (I realize my raise is low but my pf raises tend to be called by almost ATC in this game so I try and control the pot and focus more on my post flop play)Everyone calls and pot is 1.25 on the flop of Q98 rainbowed. SB (a somewhat decent player) bets .80 and I quickly re-raise to 2 dollars hoping to smoke out the J10. Villain on the button flat calls and tries as hard as he can to look disinterested. I am now 99% percent sure (cause Zach said no one can be 100%) he has the J10. Sb tanks and then folds. Pot is 6.05Turn comes an off suit 10. Now my thinking here is I am OOP against the nuts and am looking for a 10, Q, 8, or 9 to win and a J to tie. We both have about 8 dollars left so I decide to bet a 1 dollar defensive bet hoping that Villain will go for it. He has a history of min-raising and thinking that this move is the most devastating thing you can do to an opponent so I was hoping to see a pot of 8 for a dollar. He re-raises 2 more which is not as good but still delivers me 5-1 on my money. Also leaves me with 5 left so if the river blanks I can c/f and just play short stack the end of the night. so I call. River comes a 10. I check, he bets 3 I move all in and he insta-calls and throws his hand down in triumph......J 10 "I've got the nuts!" he says....after done posting this....not sure if it is in the right section....sorry.... Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 after done posting this....not sure if it is in the right section....sorry....First, take out the results. Second, we don't fold flopped sets, like, ever (a set is a pp in your hand that makes 3 of a kind on the board). Third, we actually like that he flopped the nut straight, because he can't get away, much in the way that he didn't. Fourth, nice hand. I like that the villain let this play out this way for you. Nice thinking on the 5:1 at the turn. I made a $200 call a couple months ago when I knew --KNEW -- I was behind the made flush, just because I knew I was getting proper odds to see if I could fill up. Even if we had played the hand face up, I call. Same here. Link to post Share on other sites
NoBBiR 0 Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 If you are as positive as humanly possible that he has J10, why would you bet the turn? Ever? Defensive bets against the nuts, in general is a bad idea. If he shoves you have to fold, so I like check calling, especially against a donk.Also I hate checking the river now that you got there. I'd probably lead for the 3 bucks he bet, you're never folding, and it'd be gay if he checked it down.But like MT said, you're never folding the flop. If he has J10, so be it - but you have the best draw by far. I'm not one for the "hope he has J10," because I'd prefer not be up against the nuts, but you're not folding the flop ever. Even if he has J10, you're still only about 65-35. Link to post Share on other sites
sholden 0 Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 If you are as positive as humanly possible that he has J10, why would you bet the turn? Ever? Defensive bets against the nuts, in general is a bad idea. If he shoves you have to fold, so I like check calling, especially against a donk.Because there are some players who will raise you X if you bet Y, but will bet Z if you check, and Z > X+Y. So you are better off with the bet/call line if you want to see another card. Link to post Share on other sites
KennyMatch 0 Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 would have been even funnier if the writer had of held AK. Link to post Share on other sites
rdtedm 0 Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Because there are some players who will raise you X if you bet Y, but will bet Z if you check, and Z > X+Y. So you are better off with the bet/call line if you want to see another card.How often is a bet after a check bigger than a raise after a bet? Link to post Share on other sites
biff_goods 0 Posted September 20, 2007 Author Share Posted September 20, 2007 I re-raised the flop.....was never EVER thinking about folding. More worried about the turn if I checked and he makes it 6 to go. A big re-raise then a check when up against the nuts is a terrible play. I checked the river only because this guy wasn't good enough to check behind me with the board pairing. He doesn't play anything but the two cards in front of him. I knew he would bet because he was "trapping me." Link to post Share on other sites
Scott3705 0 Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 A big re-raise then a check when up against the nuts is a terrible play.think i'm mis reading this... checking into the nuts is bad? Link to post Share on other sites
Temporary Nuts 1 Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 On the river go all in for everything but a penny, then fold when he goes over the top fearing 10-10 with running tens. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 think i'm mis reading this... checking into the nuts is bad?It's like poker kryptonite. Link to post Share on other sites
NoBBiR 0 Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Because there are some players who will raise you X if you bet Y, but will bet Z if you check, and Z > X+Y. So you are better off with the bet/call line if you want to see another card.That is like, the stupidest thing I've ever heard. I'm dumber for having read it. Who honestly bets more when checked to, then raises when bet into when they have the nuts? I'm confused, do you actually play poker, or what?think i'm mis reading this... checking into the nuts is bad?I think I need an eye doctors appointment. You coming too? Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 That is like, the stupidest thing I've ever heard. I'm dumber for having read it. Who honestly bets more when checked to, then raises when bet into when they have the nuts? I'm confused, do you actually play poker, or what?I think I need an eye doctors appointment. You coming too?It's almost as convincing as knowing villain has JT without actually seeing the cards. Link to post Share on other sites
crankin 0 Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 That is like, the stupidest thing I've ever heard. I'm dumber for having read it. Who honestly bets more when checked to, then raises when bet into when they have the nuts? I'm confused, do you actually play poker, or what?I've seen this on numerous occasions with online players. They use the convient "Raise" button to raise whatever the opponent bets. However, if checked to, they will actually enter some reasonable amount into the bet window. I can't explain why (other than the magic min-raise button), but it does happen. Link to post Share on other sites
whiterice714 0 Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 fairly infrequently from my experience... unless you're playing play money or donkeys.. but there's at least one of those in EVERY game, no matter what the stakes... Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 I've seen this on numerous occasions with online players. They use the convient "Raise" button to raise whatever the opponent bets. However, if checked to, they will actually enter some reasonable amount into the bet window. I can't explain why (other than the magic min-raise button), but it does happen.Because it's human nature to do something easy? Crankin, meet human nature. Human nature, meet crankin. Link to post Share on other sites
NoBBiR 0 Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 I've seen this on numerous occasions with online players. They use the convient "Raise" button to raise whatever the opponent bets. However, if checked to, they will actually enter some reasonable amount into the bet window. I can't explain why (other than the magic min-raise button), but it does happen.That doesn't even matter at all, its Live. There isn't an easy button! Link to post Share on other sites
linkwood 0 Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 I've seen this on numerous occasions with online players. They use the convient "Raise" button to raise whatever the opponent bets. However, if checked to, they will actually enter some reasonable amount into the bet window. I can't explain why (other than the magic min-raise button), but it does happen.I've seen this live as well. Basically the villain isn't thinking of their raise in relation to the pot size but in relation to the size of your bet. Say you bet 10 into a 100 pot, to an idiot they might think that a pot sized raise is too huge, so they raise something like 30. Its rare to find someone this stupid in a live format, but it happens. Link to post Share on other sites
ActionFalko 0 Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 How do I like your turn-Move??I like it. I f you know he's a min-raiser I think you made a good attempt to get yourself good pot odds. Only of course, if he would not have bet less, if you 'd have checked. I liked this play. Link to post Share on other sites
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