tskillz187 0 Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 If you can't honestly come to the conclusion that people play better theoretically than they do in reality you're going to be very grumpy. It would take a very solid 2-5 player to not let ego get in the way and properly process the info you are sending in real time. Link to post Share on other sites
dbl_j_22 0 Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 I hate "Oh, you have me beat, I call"The thing I love most about this game is making a read and sticking with it and having some sort of reasons for that read, whether they happen to be completely wrong or not. So I hate it when someone views your complete line, thinks for sure they are beat, and then pays off your bluff.... well Iguess i dont hate it when Im holding the nuts, but you know what I mean.I was going to respond again with saying I thought about villian's line even more, and without a read I can't put in a call on the river, since we know you are the villian, I would say you played this hand like a set of 3's or something big pretty perfectly. Now, I would admire the hero call if in fact he did it because he gave you a fair enough of a chance of semi bluffing, or he picked up a tell on you, but from the way it sounds, he really thought he was beat which is a poor way to play the hand. I only really advocate calling if we can put you on a bluff enough of the times. All in all, I really like how you played this semi bluff, and I've done that many times before to, I'm still not even close to where I need to be in bluffing my opponents because I've had many times where i put them on a weak uncallable hand, and I really believe I can push them off their hand, but then they call, making my read of them off because even if you read their hand is weak, you also need the read that they are capable of laying it down. And from your read on him in the op he seemed like he was capable, but Iguess he wasn't. tough break man. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted September 10, 2007 Author Share Posted September 10, 2007 I hate "Oh, you have me beat, I call"I love it. Even if I'm bluffing, I still like it because it means they're an idiot.Also, who said I lost this hand? Nobody knows what I have.Tim I'm not saying that people play as well in real time as they do in theory. I'm just saying that this one isn't that hard to figure out. He knew he thought he was beat when he called. That means he should've laid it down. Link to post Share on other sites
tskillz187 0 Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 TimI told you that shit in confidence!orDon't ever use that tone with me again.I can't decide which reply I like more. Link to post Share on other sites
tskillz187 0 Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 I'm not saying that people play as well in real time as they do in theory. I'm just saying that this one isn't that hard to figure out. He knew he thought he was beat when he called. That means he should've laid it down.I don't even think I agree with this. He was getting 3:1 on the call as either you or Cobalt pointed out. I still don't agree with Cobalt/you that once you call the turn you reevaluate river, the river bricked, nothing has changed. Calling on the turn with the hopes that Villain checks river to you is playing very poorly, I mean that's the ideal person to be playing against. Call, Call, Fold. "He had to have it to fire the third time." Those people are very easy to convince you have a hand.Obviously you look to get info on the river or if it completes the draw you can fold, but once it blanks barring a great physical read (one that I can't even describe because I don't know what it is) it's an autocall with J8.Just because he said something like "I'm beat." Doesn't mean he's sure he's beat his actions and pot odds here certainly speak louder (to his true feelings) than his words. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted September 10, 2007 Author Share Posted September 10, 2007 What do you think I had here? Link to post Share on other sites
tskillz187 0 Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 What do you think I had here?A8.And in a crazy twist for the whole forum, I was Villain!!! (sw) Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted September 10, 2007 Author Share Posted September 10, 2007 A8.Not A8, although the hand would've played the same.Not T 9 either. Link to post Share on other sites
tskillz187 0 Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Yeah, unless it turned out to be some elaborate bluff since it has the forum and the hero fairly convinced that it beats J8.Judging from this it's probably something like 45o and you bluffed the gutter and got there though Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted September 10, 2007 Author Share Posted September 10, 2007 Whatever the villain has, I think we can all agree that he played it horribly! And in a crazy twist for the whole forum, I was Villain!!! (sw) Link to post Share on other sites
dbl_j_22 0 Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 A8.And in a crazy twist for the whole forum, I was Villain!!! (sw)Man, you don't know the huge smile i had when Iread that line, before I saw the sw. I was completelyfooled when acid said he was the villian, but I dont frequent forums much, but I have seen acouple posts where you guys do that crazy switch, and let me tell you, I have enough trouble being tricked at my poker tables, now Im reading posts and being tricked here too,dam you poker.And I thought acid said he was bluffing earlier, since he still hasn'tsaid the hand, I still am scared of 333 because thats the most obvious line. And I'm not calling onthe river unless Ican pick up tells, which I can't so I fold, you bluffed me. Link to post Share on other sites
krup24 0 Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Oh, I was the villain by the way.I guess that explains that atrocious flop bet Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted September 10, 2007 Author Share Posted September 10, 2007 I guess that explains that atrocious flop betNaismith was talking to me on AIM and he's like "I can't believe that people still think that it was you playing the J8 here after they bet $25 on the flop..."I'd never make that bet. It's about time someone picked up on how bad it is. Link to post Share on other sites
krup24 0 Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Naismith was talking to me on AIM and he's like "I can't believe that people still think that it was you playing the J8 here after they bet $25 on the flop..."I'd never make that bet. It's about time someone picked up on how bad it is.I questioned it on page one but I thought you had a reason. You usually do.I dunno I thought maybe you were inducing a bluff, you know 3rd level thinking. Link to post Share on other sites
LincolnK 1 Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Naismith was talking to me on AIM and he's like "I can't believe that people still think that it was you playing the J8 here after they bet $25 on the flop..."I'd never make that bet. It's about time someone picked up on how bad it is.of course it retarded, but it's acid knight posting it. i'm guessing many of us don't feel qualified to jump in with that particular criticism here. :Pbut yeah, definitely retarded. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted September 10, 2007 Author Share Posted September 10, 2007 Judging from this it's probably something like 45o and you bluffed the gutter and got there though Can I get some credit here please?Seriously?!!? Calling with 45o on the flop? For a naked backdoor straight draw? How bad do you think I am?I called with 4 5 !!!!RIVER BLANK MY ASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSHe still made a terrible call. Link to post Share on other sites
dms26 3 Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 of course it retarded, but it's acid knight posting it. i'm guessing many of us don't feel qualified to jump in with that particular criticism here. respect for the monkey Link to post Share on other sites
tskillz187 0 Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Can I get some credit here please?Seriously?!!? Calling with 45o on the flop? For a naked backdoor straight draw? How bad do you think I am?I called with 4 5 !!!!RIVER BLANK MY ASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSHe still made a terrible call.LOL.Your play is so transparent So you got lucky and hit? Cuz you were sure firing your miss on the river and he was sure calling! Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted September 10, 2007 Author Share Posted September 10, 2007 LOL.Your play is so transparent So you got lucky and hit? Cuz you were sure firing your miss on the river and he was sure calling!Right. I was firing if I missed and his call still would've been terrible becuase the flop bet combined with his turn action made me think he was initially weak and that I could take the pot away. The exact same sequence would've gone down if I had A3, A8, 33, 88, JJ, AJ (maybe I c/r the flop, maybe not) and in special cases like this one, I c/r with a biggish draw (aka 5 high)SHIP IT Link to post Share on other sites
No_Neck 0 Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 nice float on the flop Link to post Share on other sites
linkwood 0 Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Can I get some credit here please?Seriously?!!? Calling with 45o on the flop? For a naked backdoor straight draw? How bad do you think I am?I called with 4 5 !!!!RIVER BLANK MY ASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSHe still made a terrible call.If you were 90% sure that he had J8 and you figured that he was a competent player why shove? You knew it would be a terrible call then wouldn't you rather bet a smaller amount that you figure he'd be more likely to call? Not criticizing, but I just want to make sure I understand this. Is it just because of the pot size vs stack size? Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted September 10, 2007 Author Share Posted September 10, 2007 If you were 90% sure that he had J8 and you figured that he was a competent player why shove? You knew it would be a terrible call then wouldn't you rather bet a smaller amount that you figure he'd be more likely to call? Not criticizing, but I just want to make sure I understand this. Is it just because of the pot size vs stack size?Going to the river, yes, I was 90% sure that he had J8.As far as my bet sizing, I really didn't have a choice. He only had a 1/2 PSB left. There's only one bet that makes sense. It's a losing call with J8 there.I'm not discussing whether or not I wanted the call, I'm just discussing whether or not his calling is correct and I contend that it's not. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted September 10, 2007 Author Share Posted September 10, 2007 nice float on the flop That's why $25 is a retarded bet. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 ....I put him like 80-90% on J8 for 2 pair becuase I didn't think he'd call with a lesser hand and I could tell that he didn't love calling. .....The river came out and I pushed. ... Seems like you hit a set of threes or hit aces up on the turn. Link to post Share on other sites
dbl_j_22 0 Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 In the spirit of the backdoor flush, here's one I pulled today. This hand pretty much goes against my policy of not semibluffing a maniacal donk, this dude was running at around 54/25, and getting his money in with any piece, basically he was a ticking time bomb at the table. I made the move on the flop because I'm dumb enough to think if he's got nothing he'll fold (i know he's coming with any pair), and i want to show him 6 high because I was on his immediate left and i wanted him thinking I was giving more action then I was. My turn and river were just for value, I still shoulda checked the turn with my read, because reopening the betting gave him the chance to push me off my hand, but anyway, here it is...PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)MP ($98.50)CO ($101.50)Button ($114.75)SB ($93.15)Hero ($162.25)UTG ($105.50)Preflop: Hero is BB with 6, 7. 4 folds, SB raises to $3, Hero calls $2.Flop: ($6) 5, Q, K(2 players)SB bets $3, Hero raises to $9, SB calls $6.Turn: ($24) 8(2 players)SB bets $3, Hero raises to $16, SB calls $13.River: ($56) T(2 players)SB bets $3, Hero raises to $36, SB calls $33.Final Pot: $128edit: Iguess yours was a backdoor straight, but same concept right Link to post Share on other sites
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