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live play winner vs. online loser!


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What's up with this? I seem to be a break-even to slight winner online, to being a moderate to large winner in live games. Example....Been playing on PS for about 6 mos., and only up about $200. Usually play 2-4 or $20 SNG's. Roughly 200 hours or so.Total profit from live games in same time, which is roughly 150 hours, up $4122. This is mostly from 5-10, but does include some home game tourneys, top spot paying $200. This also includes my trip to Vegas last week where I cleaned up the 4-8 at the Flamingo for over $500 in one night (thanks mostly to one middle age women who was most def. on tilt!!).Anyone have any theories why my play fluctuates so much? Maybe I don't have the patience online that I do live? Thanks a lot.

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Nice name by the way. Clearly it has no context at the moment.Are the players in your live game much worse? Do you partake in random activities that distract you in online games? There could be many many factors to the correct answer to your question including just normal variance or poor table selection online.

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Anyone have any theories why my play fluctuates so much? Maybe I don't have the patience online that I do live? Thanks a lot.
Usually this is the opposite. Since you see alot more hands online its easy to get used to alot of action and then become impatient at a live game when your # of hands (and therefore action) is less.You may be very good at reading people live (spotting tells, etc) that you cant do online.$4122 in 150 hours is approximately 2.75bb/100 assuming a 40 hands/hour $5/$10 scenario which represents a very solid game.
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I have been feeling more confindent with my reads latley, so that may be part of it. I usually have no other distractions while playing online, but I do tend to get bored while online, although I TRY not to let it affect my play. Any suggestions on ways to keep the concentration up while online?

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I have been feeling more confindent with my reads latley, so that may be part of it.  I usually have no other distractions while playing online, but I do tend to get bored while online, although I TRY not to let it affect my play.  Any suggestions on ways to keep the concentration up while online?
Do you like to dance? I like to " get low " and practice my 1 2 step during long tournament play. Or I do weight training. I guess that kind of is like "getting distracted" though, but it relieves boredom.
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Marion,Do you decontaminate yourself after you take that sweater off?   :club:  Go Flyers!!  Sadly, no intense playoff series this year :cry:
Go away. </bad comeback coming from a disgruntled and despaired leafs fan>
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I can relate to this phenomenom. For whatever reason, I do much better in live play then I do online. In my opinion it has to do with my ability to focus. There is much more information avaliable during live play and I find it easier to get into a poker zone. When I play online, I tend to read a bunch of political blogs, maybe the newspaper....totally unfocused. If I had a small room that I could lock myself in with no distractions, then maybe I would be a better online player....

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I have noticed the same thing with my game. I have come to the following explanation:People online are willing to bluff their asses off...then run away to another table if they get caught. As a result, good players either fold or get run down by several stupid players online.In live play, the person sitting across from you is less likely to make a stupid play. If they do, they will most likely go bust fast and go home.The comment about tells is a good point as well...it is hard to read anything beyond betting patterns and speed of bet online.

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I have noticed the same thing with my game.  I have come to the following explanation:People online are willing to bluff their asses off...then run away to another table if they get caught.  As a result, good players either fold or get run down by several stupid players online.In live play, the person sitting across from you is less likely to make a stupid play.  If they do, they will most likely go bust fast and go home.The comment about tells is a good point as well...it is hard to read anything beyond betting patterns and speed of bet online.
so lets see if i get this right: the reason you cant win online is because people do stupid things like bluffing. when they bluff you either fold (and lose the pot) or you call and you get 'run down' (and, im assuming, lose the pot). In live play, no one does anything stupid. Everyone makes correct decisions, making it, somehow, easier for you to win. If they do something stupid, like bluffing, they go bust fast. This 'running down' phenomenon does not occur in live play. The bluffers always go bust live, but 'run down' online? so essentially what you are saying is online poker is rigged to favour bluffing?
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I can see how you could read into my comments as such...People online make more stupid moves than live games...I say that from my experience. When you get several people calling your proper bets, you will get run down.In live games people that make stupid moves do exist...we all love and depend on them. The problem is that they either (1) go broke due to the higher limit games (2) can not run to the next table if they make several stupid moves.It is all about human nature. We all have the ability to bluff. But when we have an All-In button in front of us with no requirement to have your play exposed...more of us hit it.Just look at the stuff said online chat boxes...if people said any of that in real life they would be any combo of (1) dead (2) banned from the room (3) be outcast.

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Been playing on PS for about 6 mos., and only up about $200.  Usually play 2-4 or $20 SNG's.  Roughly 200 hours or so.Total profit from live games in same time, which is roughly 150 hours, up $4122.  This is mostly from 5-10, but does include some home game tourneys, top spot paying $200.  This also includes my trip to Vegas last week where I cleaned up the 4-8 at the Flamingo for over $500 in one night (thanks mostly to one middle age women who was most def. on tilt!!).Anyone have any theories why my play fluctuates so much?  Maybe I don't have the patience online that I do live?  Thanks a lot.
In general, I've noticed people are less willing to put a bunch of money at risk "for fun" online. So while 4/8 and 5/10 live have a lot of tourists and casual players who blow through a few hundred bucks and consider themselves entertained, 2/4 online usually draws a more serious brand of player. Chances are, you're taking advantage of the dead money in live play, and those moves don't work as well when more people are at least thinking about their game a bit.Try moving down in limits online; you can probably find the sort of game you're used to around .10/.25 or .25/.50. Then you can work out what's different and where your leaks are. I actually find the online game to be more consistently beatable than live, but it's a steady grind rather than the big fluctuations that occur in live games.
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People online make more stupid moves than live games...I say that from my experience. When you get several people calling your proper bets, you will get run down.so what you are saying is that the more hands against yours, the less likely it is that yours will win? gee, inspector, howd you figure that one out? you neglect to mention, however, that the pots you do win will be significantly larger. In fact, you WANT several people calling down your bets. This increases your expectation. In live games people that make stupid moves do exist...we all love and depend on them. so in online games stupid people run you down, but in live games you love them and depend on them? The problem is that they either (1) go broke due to the higher limit games (2) can not run to the next table if they make several stupid moves.So there are higher stakes games live than online? my local room spreads up to 20-40, theres 100-200 and 25-50NL online at a variety of different sites. Why would running to a new table be of any benefit to a 'stupid player'? It is all about human nature. We all have the ability to bluff. But when we have an All-In button in front of us with no requirement to have your play exposed...more of us hit it.well, we can see now that you are only talking about low limit NL holdem (probably the only game you have played, no?). You are making some sense here, except you are still ignoring the fundamental mathematical principles of poker. it is true, there seems to be a larger propensity to bluff online due to a removal of psychological barriers, but this should INCREASE the profits of a skilled player, as opposed to miminizing them as you are suggesting. The whole idea of people bluffing is that they dont have strong hands. What would you rather call, an allin by a player with a strong hand or one by a player on a complete bluff?Heres a hint: If you cant win online, you are likely deluding yourself about winning live. ITS THE SAME GAME.

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I agree with some of what Justblaze said (minus the condescending attitude), but do agree that people usually call a lot worse hands online than live. I don't think that I'm getting any more bad beats or anything online, I just think MY play isn't that great online, either due to concentration or something else. I feel very solid in a live game, but just feel uncomfortable playing online. I would not play online at all, but the nearest cardroom is at Harrah's in East Chicago, so that's a 2 1/2 hour drive. Just trying to get some tips to improve my concentration and to take an online game seriously.

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You are probably right...I am playing the $25 or $50 NLmax buy-in online. I am playing against the casual vs. experienced players. Maybe I should play higher limits.Per the comments on size of the bets...I am referring to the $0.25/$0.50 blinds on NL vs. $5/$10 in my local casino.Your comment on the math around callers and pot sizes is correct. I have no arguement about that. If I am playing with 10 players online (we already established low limit) and 6 of them are loose. At any one pot I am likely to get a sub-set calling me down. In a live game where the minimum buy-in are bigger the # of rebuys etc...and number of loose players usually is reduced. And when I make a play...I usually have up to one loose caller at a time.It is all about the numbers...how many loose callers do you have? How stable is the game (constant players)? Constantly changing players can be an equation for disaster.I win both live and online. I just find the live games to be more profitable while online is more accessable.I am not trying to argue that one can not be as successful (if not more) online. I have just seen a pattern from my online games that suggest that the loose players can be more of a pest than a source of profit.

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NHLFan - I play at Harrah's E. Chicago...it is a real good room. You can get a room right there and spend a couple of days at the tables if you live that far away.You must live in central Indiana or Michigan. Doesn't the Indian casino in Michigan have poker?I also played in Detroit...talk about easy money. There is more ego than logic going on there.

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i am also a live game winner and online loser..
I am an online loser that makes money playing poker. oxymoron?
my total 2005 winnings are in the positive only because of live play.
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i am also a live game winner and online loser..
I am an online loser that makes money playing poker. oxymoron?
my total 2005 winnings are in the positive only because of live play.
LOL Nevermind, VROOOOOOOOOOM straight over your head
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i am also a live game winner and online loser..
I am an online loser that makes money playing poker. oxymoron?
my total 2005 winnings are in the positive only because of live play.
LOL Nevermind, VROOOOOOOOOOM straight over your head
:oops:
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I am very similar in my online play. I am having trouble getting over $150. I started at $30 in Dec and play about 10 hours a week. These are the differences I see in online vs. live:1. Online has the same kinds of games, just different stakes. These are rough approximations of skill levels.Online .25/.50 = Live 2/4 to 3/6Online .50/1.00 = Live 4/8 to 5/10So, if you play 3/6 online, expect to get outplayed. Just take a look at the flop percentages on the tables online. At .25/.50, people seeing the flop is usually in the %60-%75 range. Beyond .50/1.00, the numbers go down to around 25%-40%. Those are not fish, they are people with selective starting hand requirements. 2. There are no reliable tells online. Time based tells are BS, they could be moving fast or slow to throw you off. I try to ignore them and use my intuition gained from experience. I constantly mess with the auto play and time changeups just to throw people off.You can try to mess with people with the chat box to make them think you are on tilt. The chat box gives some info about how fishy people are too. Live poker can be played well without relying on the math nearly as much, just by reading your opponents. Online, you better know your pot odds and expected value, or expect to lose or make no money. 3. Hand history. You can see what your opponent had if you go to the showdown, even if it was not shown in the actual game (at least on Pokerroom). The hand history will give you this valuable info, telling you how fishy your opponent is. This info is not available in live poker. Hopefully this helps, these are just my experiences over the last few months.

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While the comment that blaze made about online cardrooms having limits just as high as b&m rooms, there are many b&m rooms that have much higher limits than online. There are casinos in my area that regularly spread 100-200 and there's a 10-10-20 no limit game too. Commerce and Bellagio regularly spread games above 300-600, so yes, there are players that get broke jumping limits too quickly.

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You may be very good at reading people live (spotting tells, etc) that you can't do online
Yes but a $5/$10 table "tells" aren't much to pay attention to. Limit hold'em is usually just straight-out odds, with stupid people in between. I'm not saying you can't pick up a person's playing patterns, cuz you can definitely do that.As far as online vs. live, I am a constant winner live. I usually play $5/$10 during the week, and oddly enough I profit more playing $3/$6 on the weekends. Yet online, I find myself going through massive swings. I usually profit every week, yet I find myself with huge swings in between. I dunno I like playing live better anyways.
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