Q9 Diamonds Gutshot On Flop Turned The Flush Draw

[Actuary 3]

cubby,this pot isn't big ,yet.

[cubbybri 0]

ok, what's considerd a big pot on the flop?From SSHE it looks any thing in the 6-9sb zone or smaller if you know you have at least 2 players that normally call to the river.I'm going from the book(6 limps, 4 to a raise, any 3bet pot) so this may be my problem.

[Actuary 3]

ok, what's considerd a big pot on the flop?From SSHE it looks any thing in the 6-9sb zone or smaller if you know you have at least 2 players that normally call to the river.I'm going from the book(6 limps, 4 to a raise, any 3bet pot) so this may be my problem.

yeah, I know those rules.It's a combination/synergy of the current pot size + likelyhood of future bets going in when you have an equity edgeThat is, this pot CAN get big, but if you get too aggressive with a weak hand, you'll be contributing too much of the share of the pot, to win, what was at the present time, a small pot. Now, if the pot was already 12 SBs, then taking the worst of it later, can be more justified, if you can show you increase you winnig chances enough.

[cubbybri 0]

IC. Okies, this is why I'm here. Never mean to dispute but sometimes need to be successfully convinced. So partiallly need to know oppoennts tendencies more in any case.So what if we had the gutshot +1 oc? or 2 ocs? Would this make decision any different?

[Actuary 3]

I'd raise this flop with TdQd and 8dQd

[RISEorFall 0]

I'd raise this flop with TdQd and 8dQd

why? to get HU against a better hand while youre still drawing?

[RISEorFall 0]

Never mean to dispute but sometimes need to be successfully convinced.

please dispute, we all learn from discussing.besides, sometimes i get tired of arguing with actuary all the time

[cubbybri 0]

It is nice to see that their can be discussion without it being a flamefest in this forum.I'm not for conflict but it's needed sometimes to make a point or to get a deeper understanding.And you cannot grow without an open mind.All in all, I think I'm SSHE brainwashed from reading it so many times but yet still lost in translation of certain aspects. Guess that's where experience and you guys will come in.

[Actuary 3]

why? to get HU against a better hand while youre still drawing?

to imporve our chances of winnig the hand when we probably have enough equity to be at least indifferent if all call or fold.*********Cubby,Rise and I both win consistantly at all levels (he's played more high levels, too) and we don't agree much.So, there are various winning styles and lots of close plays which peple like to say "AINEC" but it is.

[cubbybri 0]

I believe that. I tend to walk away from this forum saying, 'yeah Actuary makes a good point here', then I come back and Rise(Zach too) has said something and I go, 'very true'. Then I get confused.I guess until I have MY own style, I'll try to pick through both sides of the coin to help my game as a whole. It is tough sometimes though as in most scenarios when you guys differ, I do see both sides.I feel like the new kid who tells the group whatever they need to hear to fit in(I love dogs.....what's that...... you said cogs..... that's even better, I think cogs rock!). That's not the case but I find most of the info from the spectrum of the regulars here to be very valid even if the info differs(sometimes drastically).

[RISEorFall 0]

to imporve our chances of winnig the hand when we probably have enough equity to be at least indifferent if all call or fold.

it would be stupid to raise QT on this flop, unless we think we can fold an A (which is doubtful) and if we pair our Q it will be better than BB's hand (also doubtful), but we have huge draws to the nuts and would like to keep players in.now the Q8 would be a bit better raise, we might clean up some two pair outs if we can get QJ or maybe K8 to fold

[Zach6668 513]

I believe that. I tend to walk away from this forum saying, 'yeah Actuary makes a good point here', then I come back and Rise(Zach too) has said something and I go, 'very true'. Then I get confused.I guess until I have MY own style, I'll try to pick through both sides of the coin to help my game as a whole. It is tough sometimes though as in most scenarios when you guys differ, I do see both sides.I feel like the new kid who tells the group whatever they need to hear to fit in(I love dogs.....what's that...... you said cogs..... that's even better, I think cogs rock!). That's not the case but I find most of the info from the spectrum of the regulars here to be very valid even if the info differs(sometimes drastically).

Fwiw, I think most of the arguments I get in with Actuary boil down to simple stylistic preferences.As we all know, he's a SLAP, whereas I think I'm more aggressive postflop. Because of the way we each play, opponents play us slightly differently on average, etc.For the most part, I don't think either of us are ever glaringly wrong. Well, we might be.But anyways, it's good to have both styles represented here, as we all know poker isn't a game that there is one specific optimal style. Both have their advantages and disadvantages.

[Actuary 3]

it would be stupid to raise QT on this flop

depends how often BB has an AceFolding redraws behnid us that split or beat us is coolAt some pot size rasing QdTd is correct