What Did He Have?

[Jack Ketchum 0]

I was playing the low level nl games the other day on FT and I was dealt Ks Qh. (i'm in the BB)Folded around to button who limps. SB makes the dreaded min raise. I call, button calls. Flop comes out Qc 4c 3h. SB checks, I bet 2/3 pot, button folds, SB calls. Turn 2h. SB checks, i check behind. River 8d. SB bets the pot. I think about it then fold. Was i completely off here in thinking he had me crushed the whole time? I'm just starting out in poker, and i'd like some other opinions as to what he may have held. Should i have bet the turn? Should i even have played the hand at all?Any advice would be helpful. Also, SB seemed to be a tighter player, but I had only been playing there for 20 minutes or so.Thanks

[mtdesmoines 3]

I was playing the low level nl games the other day on FT and I was dealt Ks Qh. (i'm in the BB)Folded around to button who limps. SB makes the dreaded min raise. I call, button calls. Flop comes out Qc 4c 3h. SB checks, I bet 2/3 pot, button folds, SB calls. Turn 2h. SB checks, i check behind. River 8d. SB bets the pot. I think about it then fold. Was i completely off here in thinking he had me crushed the whole time? I'm just starting out in poker, and i'd like some other opinions as to what he may have held. Should i have bet the turn? Should i even have played the hand at all?Any advice would be helpful. Also, SB seemed to be a tighter player, but I had only been playing there for 20 minutes or so.Thanks

Bet the turn ... hard.

[linkwood 0]

I was playing the low level nl games the other day on FT and I was dealt Ks Qh. (i'm in the BB)Folded around to button who limps. SB makes the dreaded min raise. I call, button calls. Flop comes out Qc 4c 3h. SB checks, I bet 2/3 pot, button folds, SB calls. Turn 2h. SB checks, i check behind. River 8d. SB bets the pot. I think about it then fold. Was i completely off here in thinking he had me crushed the whole time? I'm just starting out in poker, and i'd like some other opinions as to what he may have held. Should i have bet the turn? Should i even have played the hand at all?Any advice would be helpful. Also, SB seemed to be a tighter player, but I had only been playing there for 20 minutes or so.Thanks

Its hard to tell for sure. Its probably a safe laydown, although I might pay it off just to see what he had. It could have been AA or KK played badly. It could have been QQ (played badly). It could have been him floating with AK, maybe even AcKc. It also looks a little like JJ or maybe 1010 (played badly). The more I think about it, the more I think I would call, even though I wouldn't make this call against a solid player. The reason is that his play is so weird I would pay for the information. If he has a hand we beat then good, if he has a hand we don't beat then you're reinforcing bad behavior from the villian. And you can use that to your advantage later. I make my money in NLHE because people misplay big pairs so much.

[Roberts2003 0]

he had AAgood fold

[linkwood 0]

Bet the turn ... hard.

I agree with this also. This is where he would have told you what he had instead of you having to guess on the river. If he had a monster you could have expected a check raise, in which case you could have folded. If he had a hand you beat he would probably call or fold. But be aggressive with these hands, keep the betting lead, and make your opponents make the decisions instead of the opposite.

[dms26 3]

I'd bet the turn, 2/3 or 3/4 of the pot. Then if he still calls you can think about checking behind on the river depending on villain.

[krup24 0]

I'd bet the turn, 2/3 or 3/4 of the pot. Then if he still calls you can think about checking behind on the river depending on villain.

I like this. I am betting the turn to ensure a check behind on almost all river cards.

[Snamuh 0]

Bet 2/3 pot on turn. As played, call river.

[Naismith 0]

We can't justify checking this turn if we're going to fold the river. I would be willing to bet money that this guy had a hand like TcJc here. If we bet the turn, we check behind the river or fold to a re-raise if we feel we're behind. By checking, you've given him the greenlight to bet anything...a slowplayed set, top pair, overpair, busted draw, etc. He's literally going to bet 90 percent of the time. Once we've checked and the river blanked, we have to call. It's roughly the same price as betting the turn, so the cost to showdown is the same.

[Scott3705 0]

If you check the turn, you have to really consider calling the river. By checking the turn you're no longer just playing against the villian's hand, you now have to assess what he thinks you have (which seems very weak at this point). I would expect AA and KK to keep firing at this pot on the flop and expect a player with donkish tendencies to check 77-1010 here on the flop. Bet the turn as said, but I say meh to checking the river. Barring any weird river card (which you didn't get), I don't think the SB pre flop raise immediately goes into pot control mode with AA-AQ on the flop. If you're checked to on the river, you're probably still ahead.

[Lil_Hellmuth 0]

I actually think that he had the Ac 5c here. It makes a lot of sense that he calls your 2/3 pot bet with a club draw then he goes for the check raise on the turn when he makes a wheel. Since blank hits the river I think he puts you on strong holdings and hopes to induce a call.

[Acid_Knight 2]

I actually think that he had the Ac 5c here. It makes a lot of sense that he calls your 2/3 pot bet with a club draw then he goes for the check raise on the turn when he makes a wheel. Since blank hits the river I think he puts you on strong holdings and hopes to induce a call.

What kind of strong holdings can the Hero have? He played the hand very much like he has nothing. Putting him on a hand as specific as A5cc is kind of silly. He probably had a flush draw and missed. He could also have a worse Q than we do. We can't really tell becuase we didn't get information by betting the turn.Naismith is 100% correct in this post.

[whiterice714 0]

I was playing the low level nl games the other day on FT and I was dealt Ks Qh. (i'm in the BB)Folded around to button who limps. SB makes the dreaded min raise. I call, button calls. Flop comes out Qc 4c 3h. SB checks, I bet 2/3 pot, button folds, SB calls. Turn 2h. SB checks, i check behind. River 8d. SB bets the pot. I think about it then fold. Was i completely off here in thinking he had me crushed the whole time? I'm just starting out in poker, and i'd like some other opinions as to what he may have held. Should i have bet the turn? Should i even have played the hand at all?Any advice would be helpful. Also, SB seemed to be a tighter player, but I had only been playing there for 20 minutes or so.Thanks

*read no replies... i'm personally raising a substantial amount on the turn, but the way this was played i'm calling his river bet... if he had a hand that could beat you.. he played it horribly wrong... remember that for later against same person (can't you take NOTES on people online? like you right click them & get to input "player notes" that never go away right?) if he's got kings or rockets remember to write "he'll play an over pair like he flopped quads" lolz... otherwise you got bluffed... that's what it seems like to me..

[whiterice714 0]

he had AAgood fold

he's a superdonk if that's the case... only an idiot would play AA like that...bad laydown IMO

[sierradave 0]

Can't decide if I'd bet the turn or check the turn. For sure, I'm only betting one of the two streets. The real question is what range we're giving him preflop. This is feeling like a pocket pair to me. If he hit his set or had AA or KK, he's check-raising the turn and I'm folding to it. But I often see a middle pp like 99 or 1010 here. In that case, I'm checking the turn *hoping* that he'll bet the river for me (or at least call my river bet if he checks the turn, then checks the river). The deuce is a little troubling because any ace now picked up four more outs, but the pot is still pretty small and I don't mind leaving it small. I think he c-bets the flop with the nut flush draw, so I don't have him flushing here. That means opponent has between 2 and 7 outs here (AK has three aces, four fives, and pays money to our two pair on the river if the k hits).With all that said, if I check the turn I damn well am calling the river bet. That's the whole purpose of the turn check. You don't lose much more against the hands that beat you than you would have against his turn check-raise, and you more than make up for it when he shows down A-high or 1010.

[Merby 3]

Bet 2/3 pot on turn. As played, call river.