Nut Flush Draw, 30 People In The Hand All Acting Weak

[Flushgarden 0]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)SB ($64.50)BB ($101.50)UTG ($117.30)Hero ($77.25)MP1 ($37.90)MP2 ($48)CO ($58)Button ($75.50)Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A, 4. UTG calls $1, Hero calls $1, MP1 raises to $2, MP2 calls $2, CO calls $2, 1 fold, SB calls $1.50, 1 fold, UTG calls $1, Hero calls $1.Flop: ($13) J, 6, 2(6 players)SB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, CO bets $4, SB calls $4, UTG raises to $8, Hero calls $8, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO folds, SB calls $4.Turn: ($41) 2(3 players)SB checks, UTG bets $10, Hero?I think I might have messed up when I didn't bet the flop, but what would you do here on the turn?

[Webslinger516 0]

Wow super-underbettage. My first thoughts are that UTG has 66. It's consistent with his limp, call preflop, then check-raise with the flopped set. The thing is... why the crap is he min-checkraising with 2 diamonds on the board and 6 players in the hand? If he really has a set, he's played this horribly. In fact, any hand he has, he has played horribly. AJ, KJ.... also sort of make sense. What was your read on the situation? How has this guy played in the past? If you feel he doesn't have a boat on the turn, it's gonna cost you $10 to see the river, a pretty cheap price. The thing is, SB looks like he has a draw too, and if that's 2 diamonds, you've got 7 outs.So the best case scenario is that you have 9 outs, medium case scenario is that you have 7 outs, the worst case is that you're drawing dead. I'd really need a read on the situation to know how to proceed. Let's see what other input you get from other posters.

[Flushgarden 0]

Wow super-underbettage. My first thoughts are that UTG has 66. It's consistent with his limp, call preflop, then check-raise with the flopped set. The thing is... why the crap is he min-checkraising with 2 diamonds on the board and 6 players in the hand? If he really has a set, he's played this horribly. In fact, any hand he has, he has played horribly. AJ, KJ.... also sort of make sense. What was your read on the situation? How has this guy played in the past? If you feel he doesn't have a boat on the turn, it's gonna cost you $10 to see the river, a pretty cheap price. The thing is, SB looks like he has a draw too, and if that's 2 diamonds, you've got 7 outs.So the best case scenario is that you have 9 outs, medium case scenario is that you have 7 outs, the worst case is that you're drawing dead. I'd really need a read on the situation to know how to proceed. Let's see what other input you get from other posters.

I don't really have a read on UTG...I've only played about 80 hands with him and haven't seen him do anything out of the oridnary. Same with the SB. I do know that if either of them had any kind of made hand they played the flop very badly. Would shoving be a horrible move here?

[Lavitz 0]

I think being OOP you have to fold this hand preflop, for sure.As played, fold turn, you're probably drawing close to dead now.

[dms26 3]

I think being OOP you have to fold this hand preflop, for sure.As played, fold turn, you're probably drawing close to dead now.

I think it depends on how the table is playing, this table seems like it may have a lot of limping going on preflop. If that's the case I don't see limping with this type of hand to be a problem, even in early position. At a more aggressive table I fold.Turn is gross, it looks like he's begging for a call. With that many people in the pot it's very possible the turn filled him up, I don't think a fold would be bad. A good player isn't going to pay you off much if you do hit the flush and it's good. But you'd have to pay him off most bets if you hit.

[David_Nicoson 1]

Call the turn. I think it's unlikely he holds any deuce and I suspect he would've raised more with a set on a suited board. So I think you're drawing live.

[Zach6668 513]

Call the turn.

River: 3 (Pot $61, 2 players)Villain bets $97 and is all in, Hero...

[dms26 3]

Call the turn.

Are you paying off a push if we hit?

[Acid_Knight 2]

River: 3 (Pot $61, 2 players)Villain bets $97 and is all in, Hero...

Call and reload.

[David_Nicoson 1]

River: 3 (Pot $61, 2 players)Villain bets $97 and is all in, Hero...

I don't know. Ask Derrek Brown.Yeah, that's a good question. I think I probably fold to the overbet push.

[krup24 0]

This smells so much like 66. I bet the flop. Given the action as played I think the flop call of the min raise is fine. I call the turn and a reasonable river bet if I hit.

[Flushgarden 0]

I know I shouldn't post results but nobody has been even close to correct on what UTG had. The way he played it I didnt think it was possible. I was thinking it was possible he had 66 but I thought there was a better chance he had a weaker draw or maybe a weak J. I actually shoved here...and I realize now after your feedback that what I did was probably incorrect.Anyway...yeah I shoved, SB folded, UTG called and had KK. I did hit my flush on the river and took the pot. I was a bit of a donk, but I wasn't the biggest donk in the hand.

[danau 0]

wow he played that attrociously

[Lavitz 0]

I think it depends on how the table is playing, this table seems like it may have a lot of limping going on preflop. If that's the case I don't see limping with this type of hand to be a problem, even in early position. At a more aggressive table I fold.Turn is gross, it looks like he's begging for a call. With that many people in the pot it's very possible the turn filled him up, I don't think a fold would be bad. A good player isn't going to pay you off much if you do hit the flush and it's good. But you'd have to pay him off most bets if you hit.

I think unless your table is full of the most ridiculous, passive calling stations this play is always -EV. Look at the position we're in now as a prime example. We flopped a draw but were OOP and now board is paired and even if we hit we don't know if we're good. It's always a problem because half the time we're going to be limp/calling a raise OOP with a weak hand and the other half were gonna be wondering if our hand is good (if we flop an ace) or if we're getting correct odds on our draw and if were gonna get paid off if we hit. Getting paid off OOP after hitting a flush in an unraised pot is not easy unless we're up against incompetent calling stations.

I know I shouldn't post results but nobody has been even close to correct on what UTG had. The way he played it I didnt think it was possible. I was thinking it was possible he had 66 but I thought there was a better chance he had a weaker draw or maybe a weak J. I actually shoved here...and I realize now after your feedback that what I did was probably incorrect.Anyway...yeah I shoved, SB folded, UTG called and had KK. I did hit my flush on the river and took the pot. I was a bit of a donk, but I wasn't the biggest donk in the hand.

This shove is pretty bad. Most of the time someone bets like this on a turn into a very multiway pot then it means the nuts. A lot of people do this to build the pot while inviting you to draw to a hand that is truly drawing dead so he can perhaps take more money off you on the river. If you just folded this hand p-flop you wouldn't be faced with such a dillema. I agree that he played his hand horridly but I think you also played it sub optimally.

[Webslinger516 0]

Anyway...yeah I shoved, SB folded, UTG called and had KK. I did hit my flush on the river and took the pot. I was a bit of a donk, but I wasn't the biggest donk in the hand.

Say whaaat?? So preflop, he limped then called. Then on the flop he min-raised? Drunken poker's fun.

[dms26 3]

I think unless your table is full of the most ridiculous, passive calling stations this play is always -EV. Look at the position we're in now as a prime example. We flopped a draw but were OOP and now board is paired and even if we hit we don't know if we're good. It's always a problem because half the time we're going to be limp/calling a raise OOP with a weak hand and the other half were gonna be wondering if our hand is good (if we flop an ace) or if we're getting correct odds on our draw and if were gonna get paid off if we hit. Getting paid off OOP after hitting a flush in an unraised pot is not easy unless we're up against incompetent calling stations.

I agree that it's not a good idea at a lot of tables. But judging from this hand this table is full of ridiculous passive calling stations. I mean UTG limps , there is a min raise and multiple callers and UTG just calls with KK? I realize this is just one hand, but it's an indication you can see your draws pretty cheaply at this table.