At Off Middle Pair

[Shimmering Wang 1]

Say we Raise and are 3-bet.Flop comes A86 and we are HU.How have we saved money or made it easier to play?Are we c/r - folding to a 3 bet.Or playing in WA/WB ?Or we get it 4 handed for 2 bets.Aside from sometimes taknig the blinds, I'm not sure how it's easier, espically against loose passoves who will not let you know where you are post flop

Does the same reasoning apply for AJ, then? Or how about 88-TT? Or are you concerned about your hand being at an equity disadvantage vs. the likely callers' ranges, and the combination of the postflop styles and relative position? I think we raise to fold out hands that we don't want coming along and playing us in position, and because we pick up fold equity on later streets, and can make better decisions post-flop against MOST players. If we're cold-called twice by loose-ish players, our raise served the dual-purpose of eliminating some hands that might have called, and getting some money in with what rates to have the best of it, most of the time. Plus, the pot is usually ours if everybody whiffs, even if they whiff with AJ or 55.Also, I think Actuary is kinda drunk right now... WangPS- Don't get snippy with me just because I agree with Zach to a degree. You've seen some of the lines I advocate, and I play some of my hands VERY situationally, and oftentimes VERY unstandardly. I've always thought that accepting a common line is silly JUST BECAUSE IT IS THE MOST COMMON LINE, but it's just as silly to disregard a oft-advocated line when it's best. I'm willing to hear arguments why this is a limp, here, but I haven't heard a persuasive one, yet.

[Actuary 3]

PS- Don't get snippy with me just because I agree with Zach to a degree. You've seen some of the lines I advocate, and I play some of my hands VERY situationally, and oftentimes VERY unstandardly. I've always thought that accepting a common line is silly JUST BECAUSE IT IS THE MOST COMMON LINE, but it's just as silly to disregard a oft-advocated line when it's best. I'm willing to hear arguments why this is a limp, here, but I haven't heard a persuasive one, yet.

I'm older than you.AT off has always been a tougher hand for me and one I've played all 3 ways preflop.I have the most succes when raising but want help clarifying why.When I've raised several hands, as I had here, I tend to *think* I'm getting played back at more and have less fold equity. therefore a smaller pot, OOP is easier to take down and play post flop - at least in my headI'm not drunk.

[Shimmering Wang 1]

I'm older than you.AT off has always been a tougher hand for me and one I've played all 3 ways preflop.I have the most succes when raising but want help clarifying why.When I've raised several hands, as I had here, I tend to *think* I'm getting played back at more and have less fold equity. therefore a smaller pot, OOP is easier to take down and play post flop - at least in my headI'm not drunk.

It's more than likely a combination of building value with a solid hand, and your improved post-flop fold-equity. People are generally retarded. Instead of adjusting to high-levels of aggression by widening their 3-betting ranges to isolate and abuse the aggressive player post flop, or instead of raising mercilessly post-flop to steal pots away, bad players "lie in the weeds," waiting to snap you off when they flop huge, by which time your raising (appropriate when compared to hand strength or not) has knocked enough chips loose for their plan to have backfired. Also, raising preflop builds pots and starts the rake, which in turn signals the software to let you run good.Wang

[Actuary 3]

I knew there was a reason i loved Icema WangYou obviously have thought a lot about the game. good stuffIt's the kind of thougt proccess that keeps me geeked about Limit

[Shimmering Wang 1]

I knew there was a reason i loved Icema WangYou obviously have thought a lot about the game. good stuffIt's the kind of thougt proccess that keeps me geeked about Limit

I've been playing alot more lately, but my thought processes are a little different than before, because I'm playing in marginally bigger live-games, with the typical weirdly-bad (overly passive) live players among whom I have a significant level of relative respect, and over whom I have not-insignificant control. My game plays really weird now. I find myself correctly raising with A4s in an eight-handed game from the hijack after 3 limpers, and folding KQo UTG +2. I abuse the bad players when I'm in position, and avoid marginal spots up front so the thinking players believe I'm tight, allowing me to isolate bad players more effectively- without fear of getting called light by ranges that have me in trouble, or ceaselessly being 3-bet- when they enter the pot in front of me.Those weird games- and the amount of Omaha 8 I've been playing- has forced me to think about the game slightly differently, but in a good way. I still think you'd just LOVE Omaha 8, actuary.Wang

[Actuary 3]

I still think you'd just LOVE Omaha 8, actuary.Wang

I already avoid everything I should be doing, like studying for Exams, so taking on another game would just add to that.I kinda coast but my wife still thinks I'm great.

[antistuff 0]

you should check this turn.

[Zach6668 513]

you should check this turn.

Why?

[Frez 0]

I'm older than you.AT off has always been a tougher hand for me and one I've played all 3 ways preflop.I have the most succes when raising but want help clarifying why.When I've raised several hands, as I had here, I tend to *think* I'm getting played back at more and have less fold equity. therefore a smaller pot, OOP is easier to take down and play post flop - at least in my headI'm not drunk.

Are these not reasons why a fold is better than a limp, drunk or sobor?small pot, bad position, and greater chance of getting pressure from other medium hands?

[Actuary 3]

Are these not reasons why a fold is better than a limp, drunk or sobor?small pot, bad position, and greater chance of getting pressure from other medium hands?

could be.I prefer playingBut just saying smaller pots are easier to play OOPNow, the game style/texture will help determine which play, raise or limp actually brings about a smaller potI make no sense.sorry.. I got all the info I need for this hand and am adding nothing of value.,carry on

[Zach6668 513]

lol, just so we're clear...just that you prefer playing, does not make it the right play... right?

[Actuary 3]

lol, just so we're clear...just that you prefer playing, does not make it the right play... right?

I think I can make limping better than folding

[RISEorFall 0]

I really think about my plays and don't assume because you have played a ton of poker that we dismiss sklansky .I disagree that pf is most important.

you know sklansky says (i dont have the book in front of me so i dont know exactly where) that preflop is the most important street in holdem.

[Actuary 3]

you know sklansky says (i dont have the book in front of me so i dont know exactly where) that preflop is the most important street in holdem.

"In Small Stakes Hold'em, the real money is won and lost after the flop"pg 96 SSHEand while on SSHE, AJ is a limp in tight games and AT a limp in loose games from EPget off preflop

[Shimmering Wang 1]

"In Small Stakes Hold'em, the real money is won and lost after the flop"pg 96 SSHEand while on SSHE, AJ is a limp in tight games and AT a limp in loose games from EPget off preflop

I was just about to say, "Huh. That doesn't make any sense at all. I'd be willing to wager he doesn't feel that way at all."Then I was going to say, "Let's get off preflop. I just got off... yours. Goddammit, I messed that up."Wang