Suddenly My Set Doesn't Look So Great

[jmbreslin 0]

Both villains fairly new to the table.Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comMP3 ($9.73)CO ($1)Button ($5)SB ($4.39)BB ($1.55)Hero (UTG) ($8.59)UTG+1 ($0.93)MP1 ($5.34)MP2 ($5.83)Preflop: Hero is UTG with 7, 7Hero calls $0.05, 5 folds, Button bets $0.25, SB calls $0.23, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.20Flop: ($0.80) 7, 10, 8(3 players)SB bets $0.75, Hero raises to $1.70, Button raises to $4.75 (All-In), SB calls $3.39 (All-In), Hero's mouth drops open in disbelief...and then?

[mtdesmoines 2]

Both villains fairly new to the table.Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comMP3 ($9.73)CO ($1)Button ($5)SB ($4.39)BB ($1.55)Hero (UTG) ($8.59)UTG+1 ($0.93)MP1 ($5.34)MP2 ($5.83)Preflop: Hero is UTG with 7, 7Hero calls $0.05, 5 folds, Button bets $0.25, SB calls $0.23, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.20Flop: ($0.80) 7, 10, 8(3 players)SB bets $0.75, Hero raises to $1.70, Button raises to $4.75 (All-In), SB calls $3.39 (All-In), Hero's mouth drops open in disbelief...and then?

Can't believe his good luck and INSTA INSTA calls.

[gobears 0]

Insta-call. Lots of draws out there and SB could have any one of them. Button probably has an overpair so you're ahead of him.Also, I raise pre - I almost never limp first to act.

[jmbreslin 0]

Also, I raise pre - I almost never limp first to act.

Article from Deuces Cracked on small-med pairs in EP

[KingJames 11]

Article from Deuces Cracked on small-med pairs in EP

Good article- I think in EP I raise with 77 especially how deep we are, MP1 2 & 3 are all >100bb deep, and button is exactly 100bb deep.I definitely ship it in on this flop though... sb has AT and button has QQ or something along these lines...

[Temporary Nuts 1]

ship

[gobears 0]

Article from Deuces Cracked on small-med pairs in EP

Interesting:Limping works in loose-passive games, 4 or more to the flop and <100bb stacks in general according to the author.

[mtdesmoines 2]

Good article- I think in EP I raise with 77 especially how deep we are, MP1 2 & 3 are all >100bb deep, and button is exactly 100bb deep.I definitely ship it in on this flop though... sb has AT and button has QQ or something along these lines...

There are literally dozens of hands in play here, and very very few of them are oversets.

[KingJames 11]

There are literally dozens of hands in play here, and very very few of them are oversets.

right... we're way ahead here a vast majority of the time... I was attempting to use my jedi hand reading skills...

[Chet Chetterson 0]

You limp to flop a set. If you hit the set then you need to ship at micro level, period. It's ok to rebuy.

[qnshustler 0]

+1 on everyone who insta-ships, you're almost definitely way ahead. Also I have no problem limping utg with a small-med pair, especially at these stakes.

[jmbreslin 0]

Interesting:Limping works in loose-passive games, 4 or more to the flop and <100bb stacks in general according to the author.

Actually no, his conclusion was the opposite. If you expect 4 players or fewer, limping is higher ev. Raising becomes the better play only if you can expect your raise to be called by 4 or more players (assuming ~100BB stacks). Raising only becomes the better play with fewer players when stacks are in the 150BB range."If you only expect 4-way action or even less players to call your raise a high percentage of the time you would certainly do better to limp. This is because your EV for raising lowers at a faster rate when less players enter the pot than your EV of limping. The chance of winning at stack doesn’t increase enough to justify the preflop risk when there are few players that will call a raise. When you raise you won’t make up enough EV those times that you get four or more callers to make up for the times that you get three or less callers if the standard is for 3 or less players to call a raise."Also, near the end:"If the stack sizes get much deeper, say 150 big blinds, then raising becomes a favorite because your reward for winning a stack is higher and you want to increase the chance of getting that reward. Also, as the stacks get deeper you may be able to profitably call a reraise so the fear of the reraise is diminished. With stack sizes around 100 big blinds the decision is very close. Limping appears to have a slight edge given the assumptions that we made."

[jmbreslin 0]

In any case, I did call. Button had J9 for the straight and SB had 99. Thankfully the turn paired the board to give me the boat and both their stacks.

[BaseJester 1]

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt 32,508 games 0.047 secs 691,659 games/sec

Board: 7s Ts 8dDead:  		  equity			  win 	tie 		  pots won 	pots tied	Hand 0: 	34.515%	  34.40% 	00.11% 			 11184 		   36.00   { 7c7h }Hand 1: 	57.577%	  52.41% 	05.17% 			 17037 		 1680.00   { J9o }Hand 2: 	07.909%	  02.74% 	05.17% 			   891 		 1680.00   { 99 }

Edited July 2, 2009 by BaseJester

[jmbreslin 0]

LOL at SB getting it in w/ less than 3% equity.What's interesting about the numbers is that I was getting better than 3-1 on the call (almost 4-1), which makes the call an easy one even if I knew what they were holding.

[NoBBiR 0]

LOL at SB getting it in w/ less than 3% equity.What's interesting about the numbers is that I was getting better than 3-1 on the call (almost 4-1), which makes the call an easy one even if I knew what they were holding.

Indeed, unless you're oversetted.

[BaseJester 1]

LOL at SB getting it in w/ less than 3% equity.What's interesting about the numbers is that I was getting better than 3-1 on the call (almost 4-1), which makes the call an easy one even if I knew what they were holding.

The 7% is the equity. Sorry, I reformatted to make it clearer. But yeah, the call is correct against anything but an overset.

[Temporary Nuts 1]

You limp to flop a set. If you hit the set then you need to ship, period. It's ok to rebuy.

FYP

[jmbreslin 0]

The 7% is the equity. Sorry, I reformatted to make it clearer. But yeah, the call is correct against anything but an overset.

Which was my main concern. I certainly didn't expect to see the J9 there, especially from the preflop raiser. But given everyone's responses here it would seem that the chances of an overset in this spot are pretty low compared to the chances of other hands popping up.

[SCS 0]

Which was my main concern. I certainly didn't expect to see the J9 there, especially from the preflop raiser. But given everyone's responses here it would seem that the chances of an overset in this spot are pretty low compared to the chances of other hands popping up.

Chances of villain having a higher set is low and you have decent equity against a straight. Every thing else you crush equity wise.

[NLH2020 0]

never folding