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Paying off made straights and flushes with two pair or trips

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#1 shortstack


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Posted 20 December 2004 - 01:24 PM

Thought Id try to contribute to the stud forum... Although my stud experience is pretty limited, here's a situation that has come up a couple of times. I'm heads up with an opponent where I clearly have something like aces up or trips and the opponent is obviously on a flush or straight draw. I keep betting into him/her, charging for the draw and of course they keep calling, sometimes getting the right odds. Here's my question: once we've hit seventh street (whatever the proper stud terminology is for the last card dealt), I usually feel like I should check/call since if I bet and get raised, then I will either be forced to fold being somewhat sure the opponent made their hand, or pay off two big bets. Plus if I bet and they fold, not having made their draw, I could've gained a bet by inducing a bluff from them. So what's the correct thing to do in this situation? I know it depends on the type of player and how tricky they are... I suppose you could calculate the EV using the percentage you think this person is bluffing... but in general what should I do?Oh, and one more thing... would your recommended course of action change in a stud tourney where calling one last bet might mean crippling your stack or putting you all-in?Thanks in advance :D

#2 adamkadmon


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Posted 21 December 2004 - 03:49 PM

I like the check and call. I mean whats the other option? i just posted a similar post in the omaha room, different but similar situations.

#3 spacemonkey


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Posted 21 December 2004 - 08:21 PM

Check and call in cash games. You'll be getting 8 to 1 or more one on your money so in order to profit you'd have to be right almost every time and a lot of people get bored and try to bluff too much. A tournament is a little different once you get to the point where you only have a couple big bets left in your stack. Then saving that one bet at the right time might make a huge difference but you still need to be very sure about your opponent.

#4 cq87


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Posted 27 December 2004 - 03:31 PM

No Way. I see this All the time in Stud. No, Dont Check call unless you have the strait/Flush beet. Look he's gonna call all your raises and catch the fluch on the last card. Happens all the time. And its a real pain too. Unless you have a full house or higher before the river "Dont bet into this person" Because since there are 2 cards you cant see long before the river you have to assume he already has it, So you check. He will call check and raise and everything and anything under the sun ...but here is the key....When He is betting and raiseing before the river most likely he has it (or you can assume so, and not catch a bad beet) When you get to the river he will not bet or call a raise unless he caught his strait or flush. When you get to the river card, if you have him on a strait or a flush, your gonna need a boat or better to beat him if you dont have it FOLD, and you know this guy caught his flush on the river (7th street). By the way, Everywhere I play its always called "The River" I dont hear people call it seventh street, even though thats what it is Stud Player here call it "The River", Just like hold em I guess.Last and probably what makes the whole affair stink the most, the guy had a Hi pair in the hole and your two pair looses to his trips, or his pocket Aces beat your pair. Sorry, but sometimes people get into pots and bet on strait and flushes and you ask yourself "What is this person betting on?" Well make sure you have the goods before your bet, this is a case when you give out the free cards, and when you get the goods you bet and if possible raise and cap....Good Luck

#5 Wlleiotl


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Posted 27 December 2004 - 04:14 PM

check/call on the river is always correct, ignore this crazy guy above

#6 the_stein


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Posted 27 December 2004 - 08:20 PM

Wlleiotl said:

check/call on the river is always correct, ignore this crazy guy above
couldn't agree more lol

#7 bassplayer45459


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Posted 28 December 2004 - 09:18 AM

I play stud alot and it is very frequent, especially with large stacks, calling everything with stragiht and flush draws no matter the price, and on the end, you get raised or he bets and you wonder, did he really make the draw? It is hard to fold, and it is also hard to call. Pors like Ted Forrest purposely play like they are on a draw even if they have crap or a monster for the sole purpose of raising on the end or betting on the end to take the entire pot or get one extra bet out of you. I doubt you arep laying with the high caliber player that Ted is, so usually you would want to call them on the end...even though you are beat because the pot odds are laying you to call, plus you just never know.
"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice"


#8 Frank Guest

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Posted 09 January 2005 - 10:15 PM

Let's give an example:Hero: AsQs-Ah 7s 8h QdBum: x x - Kc Jh Tc 8sHere, the Bum could be on any number of straight draws, club draws - but most likely starting with a couple of high cards that pair either on fourth and fifth and on sixth street has an up-and-down straight draw or a four-flush going to seventh.You bet the entire way on every street, jamming the pot as best you can, but because he's probably 1.7 to 1 to beat your hand, if there is significant dead money in the pot alreadyhe will call you down with a good enough draw, and 80% of the players out there will call with incorrect odds anyway.You check the river to him on every occassion, unless you hit a Q or A for a full house on seventh street - in this case you bet, hoping to get raised.If you bet the river with only Aces-up, your opponent will not call with say Kings-up, and raise you with trip K's or better. If raised, you will almost always call because the pot is so big at that point. If you check, depending on your opponent, he may bet something as little as a pair of Kings and Kings-up, in which case you call and win. If he catches a hand that beats you, you simply pay him off at that point.http://frankiepoker.blogspot.com/

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