Brag Post

[Kaveros 0]

In light of http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...howtopic=118816I thought I would post my own. This is what I consider to be one of my most well played online hands.Full Tilt Poker Game 4724680615: Double Stack $5 + $0.50 (35753772), Table 10 - 25/50 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:59:55 ET - 2008/01/03Seat 1: campoker855 (6,605)Seat 2: Cam Llewellyn (4,730)Seat 3: kickstand1962 (3,015)Seat 4: NefastBoy (3,135)Seat 5: fuddd79 (2,715), is sitting outSeat 6: Full Moon 5 (7,075)Seat 7: lordofthesleep (6,340)Seat 8: wave64 (1,075)Seat 9: BONERBRYAN (2,650)Full Moon 5 posts the small blind of 25lordofthesleep posts the big blind of 50The button is in seat 5*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Cam Llewellyn [Kd Ac]wave64 foldsBONERBRYAN has 15 seconds left to actBONERBRYAN foldscampoker855 foldsCam Llewellyn raises to 175kickstand1962 foldsNefastBoy foldsfuddd79 foldsFull Moon 5 foldslordofthesleep calls 125*** FLOP *** [8c Jh 4s]lordofthesleep has 15 seconds left to actlordofthesleep checksCam Llewellyn checks*** TURN *** [8c Jh 4s] [5d]lordofthesleep has 15 seconds left to actlordofthesleep bets 250Cam Llewellyn calls 250*** RIVER *** [8c Jh 4s 5d] [2s]lordofthesleep has 15 seconds left to actlordofthesleep bets 1,250Cam Llewellyn has 15 seconds left to actCam Llewellyn calls 1,250*** SHOW DOWN ***lordofthesleep shows [Qh 9d] Queen Jack highCam Llewellyn shows [Kd Ac] Ace King highCam Llewellyn wins the pot (3,375) with Ace King highThe blinds are now 30/60*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 3,375 | Rake 0Board: [8c Jh 4s 5d 2s]Seat 1: campoker855 didn't bet (folded)Seat 2: Cam Llewellyn showed [Kd Ac] and won (3,375) with Ace King highSeat 3: kickstand1962 didn't bet (folded)Seat 4: NefastBoy didn't bet (folded)Seat 5: fuddd79 (button) didn't bet (folded)Seat 6: Full Moon 5 (small blind) folded before the FlopSeat 7: lordofthesleep (big blind) showed [Qh 9d] and lost with Queen Jack highSeat 8: wave64 didn't bet (folded)Seat 9: BONERBRYAN didn't bet (folded)I am trying my hardest to beat online poker (I am a live player), getting there day by day.

[Vertigo 0]

Nice hand. I once snap called off my entire stack on the river with AK high. It was good.

[TravisG 0]

OK.cbet this flop! perfect texture.as played the turn and river call is ok. looks like a typical donk-air bluff. and a tip: its a brag post, but you should still use the hand converters from flopturnriver.com

[copernicus 0]

OK.cbet this flop! perfect texture.as played the turn and river call is ok. looks like a typical donk-air bluff. and a tip: its a brag post, but you should still use the hand converters from flopturnriver.com

AOTA. Note that by NOT Cbetting youre turning your cards face up to villain. At least in higher stakes that allows him to plan to take the hand away from you when he hits or when you miss your A and likely K or Q, and kills your action when the A or K do hit. You probably dont have to make a heroic call if you lead the flop and check the turn..if you get to the turn...at the same cost as check/bet.Good read though, and hopefully it propelled you to the FT!

[jmbreslin 0]

I don't quite get it. He could just as easily have a med-pp or have hit a piece of the board, and is now betting because you basically admitted you just have overcards. Maybe he has A8 or A4s or JT or 76s. It's only a brag post because it worked out for you, but hindsight is 20/20. This could have very easily gone the other way, in which case he'd be posting his own hand calling you a donk for calling off all your chips with overcards.

[TravisG 0]

I don't quite get it. He could just as easily have a med-pp or have hit a piece of the board

nah villain doesnt play a J or a small pp that way. the only possible thing that bets for value like that is a donkish played set, which wants to look like a bluff.edit: and a3 rags of course, which bluffed the turn and hit the river.

[jmbreslin 0]

Why wouldn't he play a J that way? He checks the flop OOP worried about a better J or QQ-AA, and when Hero checks behind he figures he's good so he leads the turn. I admit the river push is a bit unusual for such a hand but you can't completely discount it.

[Sheiky 0]

AOTA. Note that by NOT Cbetting youre turning your cards face up to villain. At least in higher stakes that allows him to plan to take the hand away from you when he hits or when you miss your A and likely K or Q, and kills your action when the A or K do hit. You probably dont have to make a heroic call if you lead the flop and check the turn..if you get to the turn...at the same cost as check/bet.Good read though, and hopefully it propelled you to the FT!

I think this is totaly wrong.Checking behind can mean a lot of things, in no way does it turn your hand face up, not even close to it.

[TravisG 0]

Why wouldn't he play a J that way?

if he was worried that the op could have a better J, than he shouldnt have called in the first place. and no way he would bet that much with a j other than AJ there, and aj would have bet that flop about 60-75% of the time, so you are ahead of his action-range, or whatever.

[Sheiky 0]

if he was worried that the op could have a better J, than he shouldnt have called in the first place. and no way he would bet that much with a j other than AJ there, and aj would have bet that flop 100%.

the amount of completely way of information in this thread is reaching startling proportions, if i was to say something was 100% one way or the other in this case, it would be that AJ is more likely to 100% check than bet here, AINEC.

[AimHigher 0]

I think this is totaly wrong.Checking behind can mean a lot of things, in no way does it turn your hand face up, not even close to it.

regardless, don't you think it's better to just make a continuation bet on the flop with AK and just take down the pot?

[TravisG 0]

the amount of completely way of information in this thread is reaching startling proportions, if i was to say something was 100% one way or the other in this case, it would be that AJ is more likely to 100% check than bet here, AINEC.

don't take it word by word. i'm gonna edit my post above, just for you. and why would you go with checking?

[Sheiky 0]

regardless, don't you think it's better to just make a continuation bet on the flop with AK and just take down the pot?

I wasn't commenting on what option was best, just that checking behind in no way makes your hand obvious to a villain who had never played with you before. I bet this flop pretty much all the time here, if the blinds were a bit bigger checking behind is more reasonable as a C-bet would take up a fair amount of your stack and your hand has a fair amount of showdown value/equity over his anyway. But yeh, i don't see much benefit in checking behin as opposed to C-betting in this spot.

don't take it word by word. i'm gonna edit my post above, just for you. and why would you go with checking?

Because you were the caller PF and you want to let the PF raiser make a C-bet with his AK, he took the lead before the flop so let him take the lead after it, unless you know that he's raising your lead a large % of the time with worse hands you get more value from your hand by check-calling/raising that you do by leading out.

[TravisG 0]

I wasn't commenting on what option was best, just that checking behind in no way makes your hand obvious to a villain who had never played with you before. I bet this flop pretty much all the time here, if the blinds were a bit bigger checking behind is more reasonable as a C-bet would take up a fair amount of your stack and your hand has a fair amount of showdown value/equity over his anyway. But yeh, i don't see much benefit in checking behin as opposed to C-betting in this spot.Because you were the caller PF and you want to let the PF raiser make a C-bet with his AK, he took the lead before the flop so let him take the lead after it, unless you know that he's raising your lead a large % of the time with worse hands you get more value from your hand by check-calling/raising that you do by leading out.

that sounds reasonable. but assuming villain is that smart, doesn't he have to think that if our hero is tight, he raises only with TT+ and AQ+, which would mean that villain has to know that he's behind heros range?(ahead of TT,AQ and AK, behind JJ QQ KK AA). i think for a smart villain it would be less -ev if he leads and folds to a raise instead the c/r line ( he doesn't get value out of hands that he's beat and he doesnt win anything from hands that have him beat). check / calling is an option though.

[copernicus 0]

I think this is totaly wrong.Checking behind can mean a lot of things, in no way does it turn your hand face up, not even close to it.

We dont disagree often, but I 100% disagree here. I guarantee villain puts you on two overs heavily leaning toward AK with a check behind here. He may be slightly wary of a flopped set, but any pair that raised preflop bets for value against a dry board like this and so do most players with a set. A made hand does not want to give up the lead.

[Kaveros 0]

The problem here is I knew the player. I haden't been playing very many hands.The table was totally wild. And I mean wild. 2 of them stacked off to me with J8 for the #1 stack a few hands later (both had J8).Because I knew this player I know if he has any piece of the board he would bet the flop. After I checked behind him I knew he was going to bluff at it.I felt he almost certainly doesn't have a 5 in his hand, and despite his wild nature he almost certainly didn't call a raise with a 2. Just a feeling I had.For that reason I knew he didnt have A8 or A4s or JT or 76s. I was really in the zone (back when I had ambition to do well at online poker) at that point.It was actually kind of scary what kind of reads I was able to make. Oh those old days.... sigh:Note, I realize how easy it would be to fabricate this hh, therefore it would be retarded for me to do so. Going to have to trust me I guessI know I played the hand kind of retarded, just flat calling his mini reraise on the turn, but my read was cool I thought:Full Tilt Poker Game 4880330579: $10 + $0.50 Heads Up Sit & Go (37050644), Table 1 - 20/40 - No Limit Hold'em - 10:34:26 ET - 2008/01/16Seat 1: Cam Llewellyn (2,590)Seat 2: francois13 (410)Cam Llewellyn posts the small blind of 20francois13 posts the big blind of 40The button is in seat 1*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Cam Llewellyn [4d 9d]Cam Llewellyn calls 20francois13 checks*** FLOP *** [Tc 9s 4s]francois13 bets 40Cam Llewellyn calls 40*** TURN *** [Tc 9s 4s] [7s]francois13 bets 40Cam Llewellyn raises to 120francois13 raises to 200Cam Llewellyn calls 80*** RIVER *** [Tc 9s 4s 7s] [4h]francois13 bets 130, and is all inCam Llewellyn has 15 seconds left to actCam Llewellyn: you have...Q8 of spadesCam Llewellyn calls 130*** SHOW DOWN ***francois13 shows [Qs 6s] a flush, Queen highCam Llewellyn shows [4d 9d] a full house, Fours full of NinesCam Llewellyn wins the pot (820) with a full house, Fours full of NinesCam Llewellyn: CLOSEfrancois13 stands upCam Llewellyn stands up*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 820 | Rake 0Board: [Tc 9s 4s 7s 4h]Seat 1: Cam Llewellyn (small blind) showed [4d 9d] and won (820) with a full house, Fours full of NinesSeat 2: francois13 (big blind) showed [Qs 6s] and lost with a flush, Queen highedit:and yeah, sorry I keep meaning to use converters.

[Sheiky 0]

We dont disagree often, but I 100% disagree here. I guarantee villain puts you on two overs heavily leaning toward AK with a check behind here. He may be slightly wary of a flopped set, but any pair that raised preflop bets for value against a dry board like this and so do most players with a set. A made hand does not want to give up the lead.

Mmmm, i think this kind of thing is far too hard to discerne with little knowledge of how the opponent thinks about the game, like if i was playing against an experienced player and he checked behind here i think it would be incredibly hard to put him on a hand as i think he bets/should bet close to 90% in this spot on this board(agree/disagree?). If an unknown in a $10 donkament checked behind here, i don't think you gain any information on his hand without knowing his playing tendencies as we just don't know his thought process when playing poker, especialy in this spot. I think that often people who analyse the game as much as we do forget that a lot of players just don't think about the game the way we do ourselves or 'expect' them to do. But yeh, i guess a lot of players will but you on missed overs/AK, i just don't think it's *that* beneficial to try and get behind the thinking process of someone we don't know much about because i don't think we can say a lot with a great a deal of accuracy.