Flush Draws

[usernametaken 0]

Hey everyone I am new on here and had a quick question. I am playing a MTT on Doyles Room and pick up pkt queens. The UTG player with 12k raises it from the 600 BB to 2000. I have around 16k in chips and just call. We go to the flop heads up and the flop is J 4 6 rainbow(1 spade), he checks I bet 3600, he calls. Turn 10 spades, he checks I go all in and he calls with A 6 spades. River 9 spades. I ask how he can put all his money in with that and he says his A high with the pair of 6s and flush draw actually makes him the favorite. Im wondering if any of you math experts could give me some information about that, and also give me some advice on how I couldve played the hand better to where I might not have lost most of my chips. Thanks

[FatBurger 0]

PokerStove says you're 68.1% to win on the turn.

[dna4ever 2]

Hey everyone I am new on here and had a quick question. I am playing a MTT on Doyles Room and pick up pkt queens. The UTG player with 12k raises it from the 600 BB to 2000. I have around 16k in chips and just call. We go to the flop heads up and the flop is J 4 6 rainbow(1 spade), he checks I bet 3600, he calls. Turn 10 spades, he checks I go all in and he calls with A 6 spades. River 9 spades. I ask how he can put all his money in with that and he says his A high with the pair of 6s and flush draw actually makes him the favorite. Im wondering if any of you math experts could give me some information about that, and also give me some advice on how I couldve played the hand better to where I might not have lost most of my chips. Thanks

assuming one of your Queens is not a spade you are about a 68% favorite going into the river after that T spades hits. If you have the Q of spades its closer to 70% favorite. That guy is a mathetmatical donk.

[usernametaken 0]

Yeah well he is a donkey and it is a flush draw, how can anyone expect a donkey to fold a flush draw

[turd ferguson 1]

Hey everyone I am new on here and had a quick question. I am playing a MTT on Doyles Room and pick up pkt queens. The UTG player with 12k raises it from the 600 BB to 2000. I have around 16k in chips and just call. We go to the flop heads up and the flop is J 4 6 rainbow(1 spade), he checks I bet 3600, he calls. Turn 10 spades, he checks I go all in and he calls with A 6 spades. River 9 spades. I ask how he can put all his money in with that and he says his A high with the pair of 6s and flush draw actually makes him the favorite. Im wondering if any of you math experts could give me some information about that, and also give me some advice on how I couldve played the hand better to where I might not have lost most of my chips. Thanks

He's approximately a 2:1 dog. You played your queens pretty poorly though. If you aren't going to reraise preflop (suggested) you should definitely raise on the flop.

[usernametaken 0]

I did raise on the flop, 3600 into I think a 4900 chip pot, I guess 6s and a back door flush draw was enough to keep him in it

[timwakefield 68]

If you aren't going to reraise preflop (suggested) you should definitely raise on the flop.

I agree that he should raise preflop, however he DID bet on the flop.

[CrazyJoe 0]

He's approximately a 2:1 dog. You played your queens pretty poorly though. If you aren't going to reraise preflop (suggested) you should definitely raise on the flop.

he bet the flop.... 3600 into a 4000 chip pot, shoulde be enough to get rid of a pair of 6's and a backdoor flush draw.

[Scrappledad 0]

He's probably lost 8 out of 10 times on that type of play, but since he's won twice, he thinks he's the favorite. Unfortunately that's the world we live in.If he brings money to the table enough times, somebody will take it from him in the long run

[timwakefield 68]

If you raise it up preflop and villain calls, then all the chips go in on the flop and he never gets to see his flush draw.

[turd ferguson 1]

I did raise on the flop, 3600 into I think a 4900 chip pot, I guess 6s and a back door flush draw was enough to keep him in it

Sorry, I misread. You played it fine. You gotta love him calling though.

[Ellis 0]

Accept the fact that donkeys will chase their draws. As for the preflop play, that's a bit tricky. If you reraise, u should probably push otherwise u are commiting 1/2 your stack for a normal reraise. By calling, you are controlling the pot and then putting your chips in with no A or K on flop. At that stage of the tourney with your stack size, I'd say push and take your chances he doesn't have AA or KK.

[usernametaken 0]

If you raise it up preflop and villain calls, then all the chips go in on the flop and he never gets to see his flush draw.

You dont think that if I raise him up to say 5k and he calls, that he wont put the rest in after the flop, remember he only has 12k in chips, if he calls the raise he has essentially 50% of his chips in, I would say he moves all in with any piece of the flop

[AAsnake88 0]

He's probably lost 8 out of 10 times on that type of play, but since he's won twice, he thinks he's the favorite. Fortunately that's the world we live in.If he brings money to the table enough times, somebody will take it from him in the long run

FYP

[XXEddie 0]

You dont think that if I raise him up to say 5k and he calls, that he wont put the rest in after the flop, remember he only has 12k in chips, if he calls the raise he has essentially 50% of his chips in, I would say he moves all in with any piece of the flop

youre rightif you have QQ why would you wanna get it allin against a pair, and an overcard as about a 3-1 favorite....thats suicideBBFITDS

[timwakefield 68]

You dont think that if I raise him up to say 5k and he calls, that he wont put the rest in after the flop, remember he only has 12k in chips, if he calls the raise he has essentially 50% of his chips in, I would say he moves all in with any piece of the flop

Well if he calls all his chips on the flop with a pair of 6s vs your pair of Qs, you should not be upset......

[UncleHoot 0]

He's probably lost 8 out of 10 times on that type of play, but since he's won twice, he thinks he's the favorite. Unfortunately that's the world we live in.If he brings money to the table enough times, somebody will take it from him in the long run

Honestly, I think you give donkeys/fish too much credit. After losing to a hand like that in a live game once, I asked the guy "What were you thinking?" and the response I got actually made some sense. "I was hoping to get lucky."Here's the deal. For many people, playing poker is like playing a slot machine, roulette, etc. You just make your bet and hope that you get lucky. He thinks, "Hey, if I get lucky, I'll have a lot more chips/money! Yeah, I'll call!" Then he gets lucky every so often (who keeps track?), and gambling is fun for him. Sure, he loses money most of the time, but occasionally he'll win some back. He generally believes that anyone who claims to be a consistent winner is probably lying, or is just really lucky, unlike him.

[mtdesmoines 3]

The UTG player with 12k raises it from the 600 BB to 2000.

Everyone's focused on the bad turn call by the donk. Assuming that it's still a full table, the truly terrible play by him occured preflop -- both the raise UTG and the call of OP's re-raise. OP was headed for distaster from the beginning. Just terrible. But who hasn't had it happen to them? Sometimes there is no way to dodge bullets.You should have known he didn't have AA or KK when he didn't put you all in after your preflop raise. If I'm sitting there with AA or KK UTG and I lead out and someone raises me ... they're going to have to play for all the chips -- theirs or mine. I don't care which.

[zipper 0]

While his call on the flop was horrible (forget his UTG raise), his call after the turn was not horrible (I would not have made the call, but I would not have been in the hand in the first place). If I calculate correctly he was putting $6.4K into a $16.5k pot (2.58:1), so his odds on this call was ok (just ok) unless you had a set (which would have left only a weak flush draw) or a bigger pair with an Ace kicker (which would have taken away three of his outs). Unfortunately his chip stack did not allow you to raise enough to make this a really bad call. Given he would have called no matter what the bet was, if he had a bigger stack you could have gotten him to make a really bad call.

[mtdesmoines 3]

While his call on the flop was horrible (forget his UTG raise), his call after the turn was not horrible (I would not have made the call, but I would not have been in the hand in the first place). If I calculate correctly he was putting $6.4K into a $16.5k pot (2.58:1), so his odds on this call was ok (just ok) unless you had a set (which would have left only a weak flush draw) or a bigger pair with an Ace kicker (which would have taken away three of his outs). Unfortunately his chip stack did not allow you to raise enough to make this a really bad call. Given he would have called no matter what the bet was, if he had a bigger stack you could have gotten him to make a really bad call.

I think that's what I was getting at; the turn call was just the end of the horrible story. But who hasn't been there? ----The other night, I was bubbling the final table of a 350 player/$30 tourney and going in as a pretty big stack. I flopped KKKJJ with KJ in my hand. I bet the pot, the other big stack re-raised me and I went all in and got the call. He flips over Q 10 suited. Sucker sucker sucker sucker proceeds to hit running 8 - 9 suited for an 8-K (!) straight flush. I hate poker. I never -- trust me, NEVER -- have done that to someone.