ever make a deal in a ring game?

[delphi12 0]

A very interesting situation came up this morning playing live 5-10 NL ($500 minimum buyin no max) at Harveys (Lake Tahoe) that I'd like to share with each of you and find out how you would have dealt with the situation. I will withhold which player I was.Game is 3 handed after approx 10 hours of playing.Seat 3 - stack $3100 (bought in for $4000)Seat 7 - stack $4800 (bought in for $4000)Seat 9 - stack $12000 (bought in for $4000)Seat 9 has button live straddles $20 (straddling became a move everyone did starting about 2 hours prior).Small blind limps. Big blind makes it $60. Button makes it $160. Small blind makes it $360. Big blind calls. Button Calls.Pot has $1080FlopKs 3d 2hSmall blind bets $500. Big blind goes all in. Button thinks for a while and calls. Small blind goes into the tank and finally calls. Immediately button jumps up and offers to make a deal before the rest of the cards are dealt. A little confused, the blinds ask for clarification and get told that we can agree to do "some kind of deal" after we turn over our cards and see what each other has. Button says that we've been playing too long for 1 or 2 people to possibly go broke (obviously since button has both covered). Small blind agrees and big blind agrees reluctantly.Hands:Small blind: AKBig blind: 33Button: 22Amazing, eh?Button offers $500 from each of button and small blind to end the hand right now. Big blind offers to run the turn and river 4 times to allow the chance for them to catch up, but all money plays. At this point (even though its 6 in the morning), a large crowd gathers around (easy after seeing everyone standing up and a boatload of cash and chips sitting in the center of the table). Button starts saying thats not a deal and thinks big blind should make a better offer. Small blind offers $1000. Big blind reluctantly says its $1000 on top of the $500 bet for a total pot of $5580. This is accepted and essentially ends the session.I thought these types of hands only happen online, but apparently they do happen live. After playing with the same people for 4 days straight, it looked very difficult for the big blind to take too much from the other two. The big blind was obviously in a quandry and didnt want anyone to think he/she was a jerk. It's easy to say that you would say NO DEAL in his/her shoes, but if you were really in that situation and you agreed to do "some kind of deal" before flipping the cards, you would probably feel obligated to give something back. After the button flipped the cards, the big blind said, "I thought you had KK and were offering us a deal." It's obvious button still thought his/her hand was the best, but it wasn't and it really changed the landscape.What do you think big blind should have done? What offers would you have made? I figured one offer the big blind should have made - %15-20% discount on the amount that each of the button and small blind should have called.I'll let you know who I was and how I feel about the situation (it will be obvious) after reading some replies.

[APBT-Marcel 0]

Dumbest shit I have ever seen. Deals are normally done in race situations or in games or hands with big draws and they are nearly even money anyways. I think no one should have made a deal at all, its quite ridiculous. Maybe they are friends or don't want to end the game, etc. but if you were a good player you wouldn't talk about deals or accept one when you are a huge favorite such ass 333.

[pokerplayer24 0]

Retarded.I understand running the river twice or if its a 50/50 spot or even deciding to run an entire hand multiple times if its a race situation. But for the player with 33 even considering making a deal he would have to be pretty dumb. He;s like 95% to win. Why would he make a deal.

[iveyfan30 0]

Retarded.I understand running the river twice or if its a 50/50 spot or even deciding to run an entire hand multiple times if its a race situation. But for the player with 33 even considering making a deal he would have to be pretty dumb. He;s like 95% to win. Why would he make a deal.[/quote]

[bcook823 0]

It should have been clear that he didn't have KK, or he wouldn't have said a word. So you have the 2nd nuts, and could "rule" out KK. How long you have played shouldn't matter, how well you know the players shouldn't matter. I wouldn't have made a deal of anykind, and wouldn't laugh out loud, but inside I'd be laughing.

[delphi12 0]

Dumbest censored I have ever seen. Deals are normally done in race situations or in games or hands with big draws and they are nearly even money anyways. I think no one should have made a deal at all, its quite ridiculous. Maybe they are friends or don't want to end the game, etc. but if you were a good player you wouldn't talk about deals or accept one when you are a huge favorite such ass 333.

You are forgetting that it was very possible for button to have KKK (look at preflop action) - then offering to make a deal. Players were not "friends" but had been playing 12 hours/day for 3 days straight and definitely were very respectful of each other and did not want to completely crush and ruin a vacation for the other people.Also, try to remember this is not online - this is live. You would have to look the other people in the face and say "F U, no deal, i'm way ahead." Then go cash out and know that the others are also staying in the same hotel and you will see them for a couple more days of your vacation. Remember, it was the button who offered to make the deal. If he/she turned over the best hand (which obviously he/she thought he had), it was obvious he/she was offering to cut the amount owed.I understand many on this forum are $1/$2 limit players and many of you have posted how when someone gets disconnected in a HU tournament that you would quickly blind him to death. Thats fine, but what would happen if you were live HU and the guy gets sick at the table and starts yacking all over the place. Would you look at the dealer and say, "please continue to deal - I RAISE - CLOCK - he folds." I highly doubt it . Many of you are tough and have no heart behind your computers, but would never do (or say for that matter) half the things you do/say online (at least I hope).

[bcook823 0]

I read this again, and for the player with 33 to accept anykind of deals is beyond stupid. "Didn't want to seem like a jerk"....C'mon now thats just silly. Your playing poker at a casino, not some home game.

[Sluggo 0]

Why show your cards on the flop if you aren't all in?

[APBT-Marcel 0]

You are forgetting that it was very possible for button to have KKK (look at preflop action) - then offering to make a deal. Players were not "friends" but had been playing 12 hours/day for 3 days straight and definitely were very respectful of each other and did not want to completely crush and ruin a vacation for the other people.Also, try to remember this is not online - this is live. You would have to look the other people in the face and say "F U, no deal, i'm way ahead." Then go cash out and know that the others are also staying in the same hotel and you will see them for a couple more days of your vacation. Remember, it was the button who offered to make the deal. If he/she turned over the best hand (which obviously he/she thought he had), it was obvious he/she was offering to cut the amount owed.I understand many on this forum are $1/$2 limit players and many of you have posted how when someone gets disconnected in a HU tournament that you would quickly blind him to death. Thats fine, but what would happen if you were live HU and the guy gets sick at the table and starts yacking all over the place. Would you look at the dealer and say, "please continue to deal - I RAISE - CLOCK - he folds." I highly doubt it . Many of you are tough and have no heart behind your computers, but would never do (or say for that matter) half the things you do/say online (at least I hope).

In a live game I would do it in a second. If it were my bestfriends or total strangers I wouldn't make a deal. And I play much more live than online so I have seen deals and made them before but nothing as ridiculous as this. The button obviously didn't have KKK with wanting to make an offer. This also has nothing to do with online which you somehow bring into this situation. I act the same online as I do in live. I wouldn't say FU and not make a deal, I would just say I don't want to make a deal and thats it. How could you try and justify something so ridiculous? Maybe you had the 33.

[APBT-Marcel 0]

You are forgetting that it was very possible for button to have KKK (look at preflop action) - then offering to make a deal. Players were not "friends" but had been playing 12 hours/day for 3 days straight and definitely were very respectful of each other and did not want to completely crush and ruin a vacation for the other people.Also, try to remember this is not online - this is live. You would have to look the other people in the face and say "F U, no deal, i'm way ahead." Then go cash out and know that the others are also staying in the same hotel and you will see them for a couple more days of your vacation. Remember, it was the button who offered to make the deal. If he/she turned over the best hand (which obviously he/she thought he had), it was obvious he/she was offering to cut the amount owed.I understand many on this forum are $1/$2 limit players and many of you have posted how when someone gets disconnected in a HU tournament that you would quickly blind him to death. Thats fine, but what would happen if you were live HU and the guy gets sick at the table and starts yacking all over the place. Would you look at the dealer and say, "please continue to deal - I RAISE - CLOCK - he folds." I highly doubt it . Many of you are tough and have no heart behind your computers, but would never do (or say for that matter) half the things you do/say online (at least I hope).

In a live game I would do it in a second. If it were my bestfriends or total strangers I wouldn't make a deal. And I play much more live than online so I have seen deals and made them before but nothing as ridiculous as this. The button obviously didn't have KKK with wanting to make an offer. This also has nothing to do with online which you somehow bring into this situation. I act the same online as I do in live. I wouldn't say FU and not make a deal, I would just say I don't want to make a deal and thats it. How could you try and justify something so ridiculous? Maybe you had the 33.

[APBT-Marcel 0]

Sorry duplicate post.

[iveyfan30 0]

i understand "being the nice guy and all", but at the poker table its about winning money...you dont have to be an jerk about it, but accepting this deal with 333 is just wrong...if you want to make friends, play go fish....

[delphi12 0]

I read this again, and for the player with 33 to accept anykind of deals is beyond stupid.  "Didn't want to seem like a jerk"....C'mon now thats just silly. Your playing poker at a casino, not some home game.

Yeah, but by the third day it was like a home game - same 5 people playing and new fish just sitting in and getting taken. The final 3 people did become extremely friendly by the end and had played 36-40 hours with each other and really never went after each other so this situation was very unique.Earlier in the game, the button offered the small blind a deal to have the small blind not call an all in on the river when he/she made a full boat to an obvious flush. Small blind folded face up and button showed the boat. I think this also must have been taken into account for 333 - very easily could have been up against the nuts.You guys are not taking the time to think about this and just quickly posting and thats fine, but you really need to step back and put yourself in each of the players shoes. Each persons hand could have been beat. The person who obviously did not have the worst hand offered to make a deal showing a gesture that you guys obviously feel has no place in poker (it is supposed to be a gentlemans game, right?).

[iveyfan30 0]

I read this again, and for the player with 33 to accept anykind of deals is beyond stupid.  "Didn't want to seem like a jerk"....C'mon now thats just silly. Your playing poker at a casino, not some home game.

Yeah, but by the third day it was like a home game - same 5 people playing and new fish just sitting in and getting taken. The final 3 people did become extremely friendly by the end and had played 36-40 hours with each other and really never went after each other so this situation was very unique.Earlier in the game, the button offered the small blind a deal to have the small blind not call an all in on the river when he/she made a full boat to an obvious flush. Small blind folded face up and button showed the boat. I think this also must have been taken into account for 333 - very easily could have been up against the nuts.You guys are not taking the time to think about this and just quickly posting and thats fine, but you really need to step back and put yourself in each of the players shoes. Each persons hand could have been beat. The person who obviously did not have the worst hand offered to make a deal showing a gesture that you guys obviously feel has no place in poker (it is supposed to be a gentlemans game, right?).

see, thats where i think the problem is..in a perfect world, everyone would behave like gentelman, the braves would win the world series every year and id get to bang lucy liu, but its not a perfect world..when money is involved, it becomes dog eat dog..i still dont see whats wrong with politely refusing the deal..if they ddint wanna lose their money, then fold preflop...

[APBT-Marcel 0]

I read this again, and for the player with 33 to accept anykind of deals is beyond stupid.  "Didn't want to seem like a jerk"....C'mon now thats just silly. Your playing poker at a casino, not some home game.

Yeah, but by the third day it was like a home game - same 5 people playing and new fish just sitting in and getting taken. The final 3 people did become extremely friendly by the end and had played 36-40 hours with each other and really never went after each other so this situation was very unique.Earlier in the game, the button offered the small blind a deal to have the small blind not call an all in on the river when he/she made a full boat to an obvious flush. Small blind folded face up and button showed the boat. I think this also must have been taken into account for 333 - very easily could have been up against the nuts.You guys are not taking the time to think about this and just quickly posting and thats fine, but you really need to step back and put yourself in each of the players shoes. Each persons hand could have been beat. The person who obviously did not have the worst hand offered to make a deal showing a gesture that you guys obviously feel has no place in poker (it is supposed to be a gentlemans game, right?).

I'm sorry but you keep making assumptions about us that are all incorrect. I have read this multiple times and understand taht playing for so many hours changes things slightly. It is supposed to be a gentlemans game perhaps, but in the end its about winning. There is no positive outcome of this deal its just idiotic.

[Fluffdog87 2]

Retarded.I understand running the river twice or if its a 50/50 spot or even deciding to run an entire hand multiple times if its a race situation.  But for the player with 33 even considering making a deal he would have to be pretty dumb.  He;s like 95% to win.  Why would he make a deal.

[delphi12 0]

I'm sorry but you keep making assumptions about us that are all incorrect.  I have read this multiple times and understand taht playing for so many hours changes things slightly.  It is supposed to be a gentlemans game perhaps, but in the end its about winning.  There is no positive outcome of this deal its just idiotic.

Pretty easy to do when you read the stuff that gets posted on this forum. Seriously, if the average age on this forum is over 21, i would be completely shocked.Is winning $2000 not enough? The difference was an additional $4200 (total would have been $3900 from button + $2300 from small blind = $6200). Most people would be pretty happy winning $2000 in a session, let alone 1 hand.Now, i'll give some background on the people so maybe this will also help the discussion:Button and big blind - Male, Software Engineer - made a lot of money during the internet boom and does very well in current job - plays poker for fun - does not need the money to supplement income. Not a pro.Small blind - Female, no current job - 7 star player at Harrahs casino (highest player level) - plays poker for fun. Not a pro.Does this change any of your feelings? Basically, what I am trying to say is that the money was not the most important thing to anyone at the table. How stupid would the big blind feel if a 2 comes on the turn? Dont say you've never seen it online, because I sure have.

[iveyfan30 0]

I'm sorry but you keep making assumptions about us that are all incorrect.  I have read this multiple times and understand taht playing for so many hours changes things slightly.  It is supposed to be a gentlemans game perhaps, but in the end its about winning.  There is no positive outcome of this deal its just idiotic.

Pretty easy to do when you read the stuff that gets posted on this forum. Seriously, if the average age on this forum is over 21, i would be completely shocked.Is winning $2000 not enough? The difference was an additional $4200 (total would have been $3900 from button + $2300 from small blind = $6200). Most people would be pretty happy winning $2000 in a session, let alone 1 hand.Now, i'll give some background on the people so maybe this will also help the discussion:Button and big blind - Male, Software Engineer - made a lot of money during the internet boom and does very well in current job - plays poker for fun - does not need the money to supplement income. Not a pro.Small blind - Female, no current job - 7 star player at Harrahs casino (highest player level) - plays poker for fun. Not a pro.Does this change any of your feelings? Basically, what I am trying to say is that the money was not the most important thing to anyone at the table. How stupid would the big blind feel if a 2 comes on the turn? Dont say you've never seen it online, because I sure have.

if you play poker with this mindset, you would only play AA then even in late position...if the money didnt matter, then why did the guy say lets make adeal, it WAS about the money and its ALWAYS about the money in poker...

[Guest]

wtf is this sh!t.

[Guest]

[m21s 0]

:shock:

[TheCinciKid 0]

I read this again, and for the player with 33 to accept anykind of deals is beyond stupid.  "Didn't want to seem like a jerk"....C'mon now thats just silly. Your playing poker at a casino, not some home game.

Yeah, but by the third day it was like a home game - same 5 people playing and new fish just sitting in and getting taken. The final 3 people did become extremely friendly by the end and had played 36-40 hours with each other and really never went after each other so this situation was very unique.If you all were such good friends, you should have just quit the game when the fish were no longer playing. Your mindset is all wrong here. If your goal is not to taking the money of everyone at the table, you have no business playing poker, especially NL against 3 people you consider friends. The bottom line here is that anyone could go broke and at any time, and if only 3 are left and they like each other so much that they don't want to take all of the chips in front of each other, they should simply quit playing the game. Earlier in the game, the button offered the small blind a deal to have the small blind not call an all in on the river when he/she made a full boat to an obvious flush. Small blind folded face up and button showed the boat. I think this also must have been taken into account for 333 - very easily could have been up against the nuts.This is called softplaying and should be disallowed at any poker table. Again, your mindset is all wrong for poker in general and NL poker in particular. Your goal at the poker table should be to take all of the money of everyone there, and if that's not your goal, you should go play another game or stick to a small stakes home game where the money doesn't matter to you.I just got through reading "The Professor, The Banker & The Suicide King" (which is a great book) and I found it interesting in there how the author talks about the players' ability to actually be very good friends, yet completely separate themselves from that friendship when it comes to taking each others' money at the poker table. This is the mindset that every poker players needs to have, hence any deal you made is ridiculous in my opinion. If you're gonna make deals like that, you shouldn't have been at the table to begin with.You guys are not taking the time to think about this and just quickly posting and thats fine, but you really need to step back and put yourself in each of the players shoes. Each persons hand could have been beat. The person who obviously did not have the worst hand offered to make a deal showing a gesture that you guys obviously feel has no place in poker (it is supposed to be a gentlemans game, right?).

[/b]

[essay 0]

A few thoughts...Lucy Lui . . . that bitch is banging!!I wouldn't have offered a deal with the 3's. But i MAY have handed them some money as i tipped the dealer and skipped to the cage.Poker is a gentelman's game. Being a gentleman does not mean you baby your opponents. Sometimes you let them take the lumps while you take the money.And Lucy Lui is bangin!

[PAYforUSC 0]

no deal.