Smasharoo 0 Posted December 25, 2004 Share Posted December 25, 2004 I'm in LA for Christmass (my wife's from out here we alternate here and Boston for Christmasses because of the bi-costal family thing)Went to Commerce for a while after the gift giving thing.I'm in the BB with JJ. Folded to the button who raises. I figure him to make this play with any two cards about 70% of the time. The SB, a very tight and mostly weak passive player from the few hands I've seem him play 3-bets.First decision for me. I'm not laying this down here even against a tight raiser especially against what looks like a blind defense. I debate just calling the two and decide to cap instead.Button folds, SB calls.Flop is 9 3 2. SB checks, I bet, he raises, I call.Turn is Qs, he checks.Do I check behind or bet out here?If I bet out and he raises, what's my play? Link to post Share on other sites
shortstack 0 Posted December 26, 2004 Share Posted December 26, 2004 I would check and take the free card. If another overcard like a king or ace comes out, then you can probably lay JJ down on the river if he bets. If a blank hits, then checking will let you show down for only one bet. If he check raises you again on the turn, then he's representing something that's at least as good as a pair of queens. So you would probably want to fold the jacks there anyways. So in both scenarios, you lose a bet at worse, but by checking on the turn you can gain some information on your opponent by making him show his hand. Also, there's the possibility that he checks, you bet, and he calls. Then I suppose it depends on the river. If its a blank, but he comes out betting, i would probably just call since his check/call on the turn could mean that the queen scared him, meaning the next best thing would be jacks. Link to post Share on other sites
floppingaset 0 Posted December 26, 2004 Share Posted December 26, 2004 I'm going to assume your read of the SB was correct in that he's a tight, weak player.Since he raised to 3 bets and called the cap, I would think he's sitting on a pocket pair (likely big), or at least A-K, A-Q, or A-J.He raises you after what looks like a horrid flop, so in my mind he either has a monster pocket pair or he hit a set. Therefore, when the turn comes Q, it's unlikely that the queen helps him. Again, I'm going to assume there's no flush draw after the flop...I don't think you mentioned suits in your post, so I'm going to assume they're irrelevant.Since I don't think the Q helps him, you would have to assume he has either A-A, K-K, or a set from the flop. In none of those cases are you going to drive him out with a bet on the turn. Since I don't think you can drive him out, and I also don't think you have the best hand, I would check and hope for a freebie on the river. If you don't have the best hand now, him getting another card on the river isn't going to steal the hand from you.If he bets, I would call one bet. You are already in for four small bets before the flop and two small bets after the flop, which would equal three big bets. Calling one big bet on the turn would be getting 7-1 on your money, which isn't bad with pocket jacks. Unless you hit a jack on the river, I would check and call on the river (by then 9-1 money).I wouldn't throw this hand down with the pot odds unless I was absolutely convinced I was beat. Link to post Share on other sites
Smasharoo 0 Posted December 26, 2004 Author Share Posted December 26, 2004 I checked behind, the river was another 9. He checked, I bet, he folded.It killed me the rest of the session trying to figure out what he laid down there that he'd check raise the flop with. He was so non agressive normally, he'd only raise with made hands. Maybe he decided to take a shot on the flop, or maybe and this made me laugh to myself, he folded QQ or better thinking I hit trips on the river.I can't imagine anyone's actually THAT passive though.Thanks for the comments. Link to post Share on other sites
looshle 6 Posted December 26, 2004 Share Posted December 26, 2004 even if you hit trips on ther river he would have a boat if he held QQ. Link to post Share on other sites
river2pair 0 Posted December 26, 2004 Share Posted December 26, 2004 Three-bet the flop, if he four-bets, call.If he just calls the 3-bet, bet and fold to a raise.If he caps, fold the turn unimproved if he leads out, especially if an overcard falls.This way you win more when ahead, and can save a big bet or two when behind. Link to post Share on other sites
Smasharoo 0 Posted December 26, 2004 Author Share Posted December 26, 2004 Three-bet the flop, if he four-bets, call.If he just calls the 3-bet, bet and fold to a raise.If he caps, fold the turn unimproved if he leads out, especially if an overcard falls.This way you win more when ahead, and can save a big bet or two when behind.I'd have taken that line against anyone else at the table. I figured it was 60/40 I was behind on the flop. /shrug. Link to post Share on other sites
sxz18 0 Posted December 26, 2004 Share Posted December 26, 2004 I would have cold called preflop. Given your action though, I would check the turn. If a weak/tight player check-raises me, I know I'm in for it. He's got AQ, QQ, KK, or AA for sure. Since you have 5 bets in the pot when he check-raises you, you should call and check the turn to try and hit a jack. If nothing comes, you can fold. Link to post Share on other sites
the_stein 0 Posted December 26, 2004 Share Posted December 26, 2004 I think it is very likely he had pocket 10s or AK Link to post Share on other sites
jayboogie 0 Posted December 26, 2004 Share Posted December 26, 2004 I think he may have been on a draw? 45 suited maybe? It sounds like it. Either he was on that draw or he had a pocket pair weaker than 9's. Otherwise it wouldn't make much sense. To fold on the river with a pot that was capped pre-flop and raised on the flop would be a huge mistake. Link to post Share on other sites
BPV 0 Posted December 26, 2004 Share Posted December 26, 2004 to me it sounds greatly like an overplayed AK Link to post Share on other sites
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