The Bible

[David_Nicoson 1]

In most of the 20th century, the absense of God resulted in the atrocities you mentioned, belief systems that had at their core a no God foundation. Communism, there is no God and Nazism, the German people are the most evolved of all people and deserve to rule....

I thought this was an even-handed look at Hitler's beliefs.

[Balloon guy 158]

I thought this was an even-handed look at Hitler's beliefs.

Good linkTruth is Hitler used whatever was convienent at the time to fit his desire for evil, be it the Bible or the tenants of evolution.But his actions on his talk of evolving more than other races, is a logical conclusion to evolution's true core. Survival of the fittest is not pretty, nor does it have room for compassion. But I am not saying that to believe in evolution is to side with Hitler or his actions. I think many evolutionist are good people with flawed conclusions. Just like some of them think about our side.Begin discussion of Crusades...now

[Loismustdie 0]

So don't discuss it. Simple as that.I gave serious consideration to this, but it is my belief that it would be immoral not to challenge people's religious belief.In most of the 20th century, the driving engines of strife were political worldviews, revolutionary communism and fascism, evils that led to mass starvations, wars, gulags and people being burned in ovens.Now we have different driving engines of strife - the religious worldviews of fundamentalist Islam and Christianity. Blind faith can lead people to fly planes into buildings. Blind faith can lead people to believe that rape victims deserve it. Evil must be opposed.

Nobody deserves to be raped! Who the hell thinks that?

[chrisuk_sw 0]

In most of the 20th century, the absense of God resulted in the atrocities you mentioned, belief systems that had at their core a no God foundation. Communism, there is no God and Nazism, the German people are the most evolved of all people and deserve to rule.... To lump Christianity in with radical Islam is grasping at straws. Just as picking the worst of a group and labeling the entire group by their actions.

You could just as easily say that the absence of baseball resulted in the atrocities of the 20th century. The political systems in themselves are concerned with human power structures, not faith (or sport). Religion is largely an irrelevance, just as it is to the political system that triumphed, democratic capitalism.I am not lumping Christianity in with radical Islam as a threat, I am lumping radical Christianity in with radical Islam as a threat. The moderate versions of Christianity and Islam are also a threat in that, once you have made the leap and have abandoned reason for faith, you can believe anything you wish, and justify anything you wish.

[Balloon guy 158]

You could just as easily say that the absence of baseball resulted in the atrocities of the 20th century. The political systems in themselves are concerned with human power structures, not faith (or sport). Religion is largely an irrelevance, just as it is to the political system that triumphed, democratic capitalism.I am not lumping Christianity in with radical Islam as a threat, I am lumping radical Christianity in with radical Islam as a threat. The moderate versions of Christianity and Islam are also a threat in that, once you have made the leap and have abandoned reason for faith, you can believe anything you wish, and justify anything you wish.

Why do students always think that text books are better than real life examples?Christianity has had it's hand in most of history for the last 2000 years, the world didn't fall apart. The few atrocities were mild compared to the forms of government that at it's foundation taught the very absence of religion. they talked about how religion was an opiate of the people that was bad for the health of society. Then after they slaughterd 500 million people, the church came back and is trying to pick up the pieces and help the people regain hope.And here you are saying that it's your mission to save the world from Christians and what they think cause you know it is bad.....Too bad the whole world wasn't created 5 years ago, then your theories could have some grain of a chance to be true. But until you rewrite history, you are stuck with:religion = more good than bad,lack of religion = more bad than good

[Flack_attack 0]

Nobody deserves to be raped! Who the hell thinks that?

Oh but some deserve to be tortured for eternity?

[chrisuk_sw 0]

Why do students always think that text books are better than real life examples?Christianity has had it's hand in most of history for the last 2000 years, the world didn't fall apart. The few atrocities were mild compared to the forms of government that at it's foundation taught the very absence of religion. they talked about how religion was an opiate of the people that was bad for the health of society. Then after they slaughterd 500 million people, the church came back and is trying to pick up the pieces and help the people regain hope.And here you are saying that it's your mission to save the world from Christians and what they think cause you know it is bad.....Too bad the whole world wasn't created 5 years ago, then your theories could have some grain of a chance to be true. But until you rewrite history, you are stuck with:religion = more good than bad,lack of religion = more bad than good

I don't know where you got your figure of 500,000,000 from? You are mostly talking about communism (yet I know someone who was taught at school by communist Catholic Nuns), yet you say nothing about fascism that was generally not atheistic.According to your assertion that: religion = more good, lack of religion = more bad.... who acted worst in the Vietnam War? Theistic America or atheistic North Vietnam?

[Balloon guy 158]

I don't know where you got your figure of 500,000,000 from? Population figures You are mostly talking about communism (yet I know someone who was taught at school by communist Catholic Nuns), yet you say nothing about fascism that was generally not atheistic. Oh if you KNOW someone that is different, I of course know no person that ever goes against the normal actions of a group...wish I did.According to your assertion that: religion = more good, lack of religion = more bad.... who acted worst in the Vietnam War? Theistic America or atheistic North Vietnam?Uh.. the north vietnam. By a factor of about 20

$10 says this guy believes 9-11 was an inside jobWho's got me here, $10 before he ruins it and quotes an internet site that shows American Generals ordering the rape and murder of 2 billion peace loving vietnamese children during the American Tet offensive.

[Balloon guy 158]

Oh but some deserve to be tortured for eternity?

Actually all deserve it. And the place they go was not made for them, it was made for punishment of the devil and his followers, Heaven was made for us.But God wanted to save us, so He made a way to escape.Anyone that rejects His plan is the one sending themselves to eternal punishment, Just like a person refusing to get into a life raft, then drowning. Their actions caused the problem, so they don't get to blame God.It is simplistic because God wanted everyone to accept. People make it hard because we at our core are stupid. At least I am.

[James D 0]

Nobody deserves to be raped! Who the hell thinks that?

Hmmmmm... If someone had raped and murdered my children (I don't have any, but if I did), I'm quite sure that I'd think they deserved to be raped and murdered themselves.Is it immoral to think that way?

[crowTrobot 2]

It is simplistic because God wanted everyone to accept. People make it hard because we at our core are stupid. At least I am.

not stupid, delusional.

[brvheart 1,752]

Well, there's been a whole topic on this one point, but it does seem to contradict other parts of the Bible where it says that all sins are forgiveable. There were 3 other apparent contradictions I gave - about fearing God/not fearing God, about thieves going to heaven/not going to heaven, about Revelation saying only 144,000 would be saved/all who believe will be saved.I deny the Holy Spirit. I do not care whether I have committed the unforgiveable sin. Therefore, I think you're saying that I have committed this sin.To threadcross, Loismustdie asked what would happen if we found that aliens had and used the exact same Bible as we do. If this were to happen, I would accept that the Bible is true, and that Jesus Christ was my lord and saviour. But there would be no salvation for me as I have already committed a sin that cannot be forgiven.

wrong, because the verse specifically says that it applies to a person that has already been shown the truth and they reject it to follow their selfishness. So you're still on the 'ok to pray for' list. whew.

[chrisuk_sw 0]

$10 says this guy believes 9-11 was an inside jobWho's got me here, $10 before he ruins it and quotes an internet site that shows American Generals ordering the rape and murder of 2 billion peace loving vietnamese children during the American Tet offensive.

You lose your $10.Here's what I will say though. Your Christian country, the United States of America, barely 6 generations ago completed the world's best example of how to successfully achieve the genocide of an indigenous people and the ethnic cleansing of a country.My point is that the religious belief held by a nation makes pretty no difference when it comes to the morality of the actions of that nation.

[Balloon guy 158]

You lose your $10.Here's what I will say though. Your Christian country, the United States of America, barely 6 generations ago completed the world's best example of how to successfully achieve the genocide of an indigenous people and the ethnic cleansing of a country.My point is that the religious belief held by a nation makes pretty no difference when it comes to the morality of the actions of that nation.

You are a bad representation for the British people. (Another Christian nation.)look at the island of Hispaniola, one side Christian: Dominican Republic...great cigarsOther side non Chrisitan ( voodoo main religion) Haiti....no cigars, only burning tires over the necks of the political opposition.About as clear an example that Christianity makes for a better foundation for a communiy than any alternative.Still think I would have won the $10, you are just not being honest.

[jmkiser 0]

Switzerland = mostly atheist & MORE FREE THEN AMERICAAmerica = mostly Christian & LESS FREE THEN SWITZERLANDyeah... the christians sure did get it right

[brvheart 1,752]

Switzerland = mostly atheist & MORE FREE THEN AMERICAAmerica = mostly Christian & LESS FREE THEN SWITZERLANDyeah... the christians sure did get it right

This made me laugh... good one.

[jmkiser 0]

This made me laugh... good one.

:D I'm glad you giggled, although, I'm assuming you disagree. I see no evidence saying that a "Christian" society has ever gotten it right. America's been on an up and down path that, overall, has gone steadily downhill. From the dream of the secular and non-imposing limited government of our founding fathers to, practically, a socialist society (without all the benefits of real socialism).

[Flack_attack 0]

:D I'm glad you giggled, although, I'm assuming you disagree. I see no evidence saying that a "Christian" society has ever gotten it right. America's been on an up and down path that, overall, has gone steadily downhill. From the dream of the secular and non-imposing limited government of our founding fathers to, practically, a socialist society (without all the benefits of real socialism).

In 30-50 years, you will be happy to live in a Christian country. Guess what? America got it right. Europe is being taken over by Muslims and before too long America will be the last stronghold to Western society, and one of the reasons for this is our strong Christianity.

[crowTrobot 2]

In 30-50 years, you will be happy to live in a Christian country.

in 50 years the ignorant generation that is currently the driving force behindchristianity in the US will be mostly dead, a more informed/educated generationwill be emerging, society will be largely secular, and all fundamental religiousbeliefs including christianity will be well on their way to becoming fringe cults.this has already happened in several european countries and japan, and it'sclearly starting to happen already among more intellectual circles in the US.as soon as it becomes clear to the educated general public that it is actually"ok" socially to be agnostic/atheist/deist/buddhist or anything else that, unlike christianity, actually makes some logical sense, then the pattern clearly indicates that is what most will become. i hope i live long enough to see ithappen here.

[Loismustdie 0]

in 50 years the ignorant generation that is currently the driving force behindchristianity in the US will be mostly dead, a more informed/educated generationwill be emerging, society will be largely secular, and all fundamental religiousbeliefs including christianity will be well on their way to becoming fringe cults.this has already happened in several european countries and japan, and it'sclearly starting to happen already among more intellectual circles in the US.as soon as it becomes clear to the educated general public that it is actually"ok" socially to be agnostic/atheist/deist/buddhist or anything else that, unlike christianity, actually makes some logical sense, then the pattern clearly indicates that is what most will become. i hope i live long enough to see ithappen here.

I agree with this, except then Christ will come back to take his people into heaven and destroy the world. Oops.

[Flack_attack 0]

in 50 years the ignorant generation that is currently the driving force behindchristianity in the US will be mostly dead, a more informed/educated generationwill be emerging, society will be largely secular, and all fundamental religiousbeliefs including christianity will be well on their way to becoming fringe cults.this has already happened in several european countries and japan, and it'sclearly starting to happen already among more intellectual circles in the US.as soon as it becomes clear to the educated general public that it is actually"ok" socially to be agnostic/atheist/deist/buddhist or anything else that, unlike christianity, actually makes some logical sense, then the pattern clearly indicates that is what most will become. i hope i live long enough to see ithappen here.

It is exactly because of this that Europe is being taken over by Islam. Did you not read my post?

[crowTrobot 2]

It is exactly because of this that Europe is being taken over by Islam. Did you not read my post?

i ignored your statement because it's false. if western europe is in danger of being "taken over" by anything it's agnosticism. where islam is increasing in europe it is purely due to immigration from islamic countries, and it's relatively minor.

[crowTrobot 2]

Actually all deserve it. And the place they go was not made for them, it was made for punishment of the devil and his followers, Heaven was made for us.

it's actually quite illogically egocentric, even for a christian, to think that a universal creator would care enough about punishing individual humans to send anyone to hell. get off your pedestal.

[crowTrobot 2]

I agree with this, except then Christ will come back to take his people into heaven and destroy the world.

then lucky you that you happen by chance to be born in a society where christianity is socially mandated instead of anywhere else in the world where it's not. god loves the USA best!! wooooo!!fuk the stupid children of other countries that commit the sin of believing what their non-christian parents tell them. they deserve hell.

[Balloon guy 158]

then lucky you that you happen by chance to be born in a society where christianity is socially mandated instead of anywhere else in the world where it's not. God loves the USA best!! wooooo!!

QFT