Switch To Cash Games?

[SamC489 0]

I play almost exclusively tournaments on pokerstars, and i guess i do decent (my ps name is SamC489). After a couple of months of playing more than normal, and focusing on trying to make money (all be it not that much) I haven't been able to make much profit. This has become somewhat frustrating. I was thinking about starting to play more nlhe cash games, and maybe even limit, as well as plo8. As far as I can tell the consensus is that cash games are more +EV because there is no reaon to take coinflips and 60/40s. I have a $1500 roll and need to know a few things. 1) nlhe cash game book to read. 2)what stakes should i begin at .25/.50? 3) I can play decent 1/2 nlhe at casinos when my head is in it. What would these stakes translate to online?

[SonnyBarger 0]

The good news is, you haven't been a big loser either. Your OPR stats for the last 4 months show a basic break-even run. And while 481 total tournaments are a decent sample size, 1 Std dev. in either direction makes you either a solid player or one with a serious flaw. In English, you've played enough, but without a more detailed hand-by-hand analysis you still don't know how good you are.Your bankroll is probably on the high side for 50 NL, but its always better to be over-rolled than under-rolled. Cash games are a different animal. I do take exception with your 60/40 statement. Sometimes its wrong to take a +EV chance in a tourney because of structure issues. Its never wrong to turn down a +EV opportunity in a cash game.If you're in the mood to make a change, give it a shot. But the truth is, it looks from your stats like you're only a couple of steps away from being a long-term winner at tournaments.Just my $0.02

[KUPoker5 0]

I play almost exclusively tournaments on pokerstars, and i guess i do decent (my ps name is SamC489). After a couple of months of playing more than normal, and focusing on trying to make money (all be it not that much) I haven't been able to make much profit. This has become somewhat frustrating. I was thinking about starting to play more nlhe cash games, and maybe even limit, as well as plo8. As far as I can tell the consensus is that cash games are more +EV because there is no reaon to take coinflips and 60/40s. I have a $1500 roll and need to know a few things. 1) nlhe cash game book to read. 2)what stakes should i begin at .25/.50? 3) I can play decent 1/2 nlhe at casinos when my head is in it. What would these stakes translate to online?

1) There aren't too many great "cash game" poker books that I can think of right now. Most of the good ones talk about overall NL strategy with a squeeze of cash game strategy in them. I'd recommend Phil Gordon's "Little (Blue or Green) Book" though. Also I hear that there will soon be another Harrington on Holdem which exlusively covers cash games. So wait for that one too.2) .25/.50 is probably a good starting point, maybe you could bump it up to .50/1 later when you're more comfortable with the cash games. Any higher than that I think you should have a bigger roll since I hear the swings can be pretty devastating.3) I don't know how long you can make $1500 last in a 1/2nl game. Buddies of mine have had $1000 swings in the 2/4nl level, so I'm sure you would have at least $500 swings (a third of your roll). I would stay lower until you build your roll up higher. Or you could always just play limit and make some decent money there if you're any good at it.

[KUPoker5 0]

I do take exception with your 60/40 statement. Sometimes its wrong to take a +EV chance in a tourney because of structure issues. Its never wrong to turn down a +EV opportunity in a cash game.

Agreed. In cash games I am more willing to take most +EV opportunities because in the long run I will make money. This doesn't necessarily work in tournies because you may cripple your stack to the point of no return. In a cash game you just keep playing your +EV game (even if its 51/49), and you will eventually end up ahead. It's straighforward math.

[SamC489 0]

If you're in the mood to make a change, give it a shot. But the truth is, it looks from your stats like you're only a couple of steps away from being a long-term winner at tournaments.

My actual sample size is much larger and I am a long-term winner at tournaments, (party was more lucrative for me pre-frist) I just think that I could win more money playing cash games. The break-eveness of the last four months is wearing on my nerves i guess. Thanks for the input.

[Mikey Ravioli 0]

I think one key difference was a major point in a book I read. Basically, in a cash game you don't HAVE to do anything.In a tournament the structure FORCES you to HAVE to gamble at some point.

[Mikey Ravioli 0]

No limit Texas Hold'em: A Complete course by Angel Largay is a pretty good book.It isn't exactly a "complete" course. It is geared toward smaller buy in games like you would see at most LV casinos.$1/$2 NL $200 max buy in.

[UncleCollins 0]

.25/.50NL is a good start. I definitely wouldn't recommend you play any higher than that with $1500, especially if you are new to cash games.

[SonnyBarger 0]

My actual sample size is much larger and I am a long-term winner at tournaments, (party was more lucrative for me pre-frist) I just think that I could win more money playing cash games. The break-eveness of the last four months is wearing on my nerves i guess. Thanks for the input.

Actually, your 2006 stats on Party aren't a whole lot different. 5% ROI over 267 NLHE tournaments. 14% ITM but only 2% in the top 10. Not much different from your recent 'Stars stat (within 1 sd). In other words, you're 1 addition top 3 finish from having a very big +ROI. Ideally, you'd like at least 20% of your ITM finishes to be top 10 (for this period ithat would mean 8 top 10's as opposed to the 5 you have). Not a bg delta, and in truth, the way MTT variance works, you may still be playing close to optimally, but the usual reason for not getting over the tourney ROI hump is playing too tight, especially in position.The MTT game can be frustrating, however, and maybe a change of pace to cash games will be good for you, maybe you'll find them much more profitable, or maybe you'll go back to tourneys with more confidence.

[jschell 0]

I'm mainly a tournament player and I've tried to make the switch to cash games a couple of time, but I was never able to do as well. My game seems to be more suited to tournaments.If you switch to cash games, you will have to adjust, you will have to go through a period at the beginning where you aren't playing optimally because of this. You may or may not be able to do better than you did in tournaments, depending on how well you are able to adjust your play to be correct in cash games.

As far as I can tell the consensus is that cash games are more +EV

I don't feel that this is true. People perceive cash games to be more +EV generally because there is less variance, but they are probably -EV compared to tournaments because you generally pay more in rake at comparable levels. There are other factors for the relative EVs of cash games and tournaments, so it's not just cut and dried "cash games are more +EV".The point is that it's personal preference. You might like playing cash games more because they're more flexible and have less variance, or you might go back to tournaments because of your style of play and the rake. I'd say give it a shot just so you can see what you're better at.

[timwakefield 68]

I was almost exclusively a tournament player until about 3 or 4 weeks ago, when I started playing cash games. I've played tournaments with varying degrees of success and effort for a few years, but had always had a real aversion to cash games. Long story short, I've been crushing 50nl on stars, do it, it's fun.

[Fade2241 0]

If you don't have a tilt problem I would def recommend cash games to you.