Defending Blinds

[SlackerInc 0]

This week on PAD there were a number of players who were pretty steadfast about "defending blinds" (mostly by calling LP raises, more than playing back at the raiser, though there was some of that). And in tourneys I play, I see some decent players have success doing a lot of this.Which makes me wonder if I'm too quick to give up my blind. I mean, if it's a minraise and I can close out the betting (no limpers ahead of the raiser still to act), I'll often take a gander at the flop with a speculative hand. But once the raise is 3xBB, I almost always muck without a second thought, unless of course I wake up with a real hand. I wonder if this is a leak, and I'd like to hear about how other people defend their blinds.More broadly, I tend not to like getting into a pot, even when I'm in position, that someone else has raised. If it's folded to me in LP, I'm an inveterate blind thief with a variety of holdings (though usually not total trash like J-5os). But it's rare that I'll just call a raise preflop--I'll tend to fold the vast majority of hands, and reraise (often push, since I play turbos) with the good stuff.

[jjgoldy5 0]

This week on PAD there were a number of players who were pretty steadfast about "defending blinds" (mostly by calling LP raises, more than playing back at the raiser, though there was some of that). And in tourneys I play, I see some decent players have success doing a lot of this.Which makes me wonder if I'm too quick to give up my blind. I mean, if it's a minraise and I can close out the betting (no limpers ahead of the raiser still to act), I'll often take a gander at the flop with a speculative hand. But once the raise is 3xBB, I almost always muck without a second thought, unless of course I wake up with a real hand. I wonder if this is a leak, and I'd like to hear about how other people defend their blinds.More broadly, I tend not to like getting into a pot, even when I'm in position, that someone else has raised. If it's folded to me in LP, I'm an inveterate blind thief with a variety of holdings (though usually not total trash like J-5os). But it's rare that I'll just call a raise preflop--I'll tend to fold the vast majority of hands, and reraise (often push, since I play turbos) with the good stuff.

Slacker - The key to defending blinds is identifying your villains range, and identifying relative stack sizes and the risk vs reward of the situations.At first, I will continue to fold the vast majority of hands. This accomplishes the goal of establishing yourself as a tight player from the blinds, and reeling in your competition for the big hit. Next, I will determine if the relative stack sizes makes a resteal possible. This is often the case when you have a dangerous stack and the opponent has not committed himself with the preflop raise. Next, I will determine the nature of my competition. Is the villain raising too many hands? If you notice them getting out of line, it is time for a move of some sort. You can determine if they are likely to continuation bet any flop they hit and go for a smooth call / check-raise of the flop, or if you think he is capable of making a decent fold, simply stick in a big raise (3-4x the original bet is usually good). If the raise will commit you, you have to be sure you either have A.) A strong hand, or B.) A hand that is likely to be alive... such as middle suited connectors like 89, 9T rather than a hand that is easily dominated such as A-weak.I tend to fold > call > reraise with strong hand > reraise on a steal in a ratio that probably looks something like 75- 15 - 5 - 5 .. Just watch a few higher limit MTT final tables, and you will see plenty of restealing going on. Once you have seen it, and tried it a few times yourself, it will become a lot more clear to you when you should resteal.Good luck.

[ramenandeggs 0]

i go by the numbers. as the bb, i have the best pot odds offered to me, but this is sometimes negated by early/middle limpers because i don't end the action. I don't know if someone was trying to slowplay, and wants to raise the aggressor. If it's a case where it's folded around to button, and he's raising 3xbb, then there's already 1.5bb in the pot + 3bb=4.5bb (assumming sb folds), and I only need to put 2bb to call, i'm getting 4.5/2=2.5 to 1 on my money. I think I can afford to catch up a bit with a weaker than normal hand and try to surprise him with 58o or something when the flop two pairs me and pairs his overcard. but, this also does depend on the button and how often he tries to raise me, if a rock raises me, I'm not putting him on a button steal most of the time, unless some kind of betting pattern read tells me he is. image is easily developed, if I can show once or twice that I'm willing to play back without waiting for the best hands, usually the aggressor will back down.

[Kestral123 0]

Slacker - The key to defending blinds is identifying your villains range, and identifying relative stack sizes and the risk vs reward of the situations.At first, I will continue to fold the vast majority of hands. This accomplishes the goal of establishing yourself as a tight player from the blinds, and reeling in your competition for the big hit. Next, I will determine if the relative stack sizes makes a resteal possible. This is often the case when you have a dangerous stack and the opponent has not committed himself with the preflop raise. Next, I will determine the nature of my competition. Is the villain raising too many hands? If you notice them getting out of line, it is time for a move of some sort. You can determine if they are likely to continuation bet any flop they hit and go for a smooth call / check-raise of the flop, or if you think he is capable of making a decent fold, simply stick in a big raise (3-4x the original bet is usually good). If the raise will commit you, you have to be sure you either have A.) A strong hand, or B.) A hand that is likely to be alive... such as middle suited connectors like 89, 9T rather than a hand that is easily dominated such as A-weak.I tend to fold > call > reraise with strong hand > reraise on a steal in a ratio that probably looks something like 75- 15 - 5 - 5 .. Just watch a few higher limit MTT final tables, and you will see plenty of restealing going on. Once you have seen it, and tried it a few times yourself, it will become a lot more clear to you when you should resteal.Good luck.

QFT. I was going to respond to this post, but jj absolutely nailed it. Somebody should put this response in a sticky.

[outsider13 0]

Slacker - The key to defending blinds is identifying your villains range, and identifying relative stack sizes and the risk vs reward of the situations.At first, I will continue to fold the vast majority of hands. This accomplishes the goal of establishing yourself as a tight player from the blinds, and reeling in your competition for the big hit. Next, I will determine if the relative stack sizes makes a resteal possible. This is often the case when you have a dangerous stack and the opponent has not committed himself with the preflop raise. Next, I will determine the nature of my competition. Is the villain raising too many hands? If you notice them getting out of line, it is time for a move of some sort. You can determine if they are likely to continuation bet any flop they hit and go for a smooth call / check-raise of the flop, or if you think he is capable of making a decent fold, simply stick in a big raise (3-4x the original bet is usually good). If the raise will commit you, you have to be sure you either have A.) A strong hand, or B.) A hand that is likely to be alive... such as middle suited connectors like 89, 9T rather than a hand that is easily dominated such as A-weak.I tend to fold > call > reraise with strong hand > reraise on a steal in a ratio that probably looks something like 75- 15 - 5 - 5 .. Just watch a few higher limit MTT final tables, and you will see plenty of restealing going on. Once you have seen it, and tried it a few times yourself, it will become a lot more clear to you when you should resteal.Good luck.

Very well said, thanks! I've actually been trying to help the end game as well and this is a major fault of mine.The final table viewing like you said helps a lot. Try to catch the Sunday Million final table replay. They show it with the cards face up, so it's a lot easier to see the range of these steals and resteals. I was quite surprised, mostly because I'm too tight.

[SlackerInc 0]

Very well said, thanks! I've actually been trying to help the end game as well and this is a major fault of mine.The final table viewing like you said helps a lot. Try to catch the Sunday Million final table replay. They show it with the cards face up, so it's a lot easier to see the range of these steals and resteals. I was quite surprised, mostly because I'm too tight.

Wow, that sounds awesome--I had no idea they had a face up replay! How do I get to this replay?Thanks for the other responses too--very good stuff.

[outsider13 0]

Wow, that sounds awesome--I had no idea they had a face up replay! How do I get to this replay?Thanks for the other responses too--very good stuff.

Just go to Tournaments and it should be in there. Just look for completed tournaments and it will say Sunday Million - Final Table Replay at the end of it (or something like that)I did notice that 1 player had the cards face down. Maybe they have to agree to it??? Still though, it was really good to watch.

[caribstv 0]

QFT. I was going to respond to this post, but jj absolutely nailed it. Somebody should put this response in a sticky.

All depends on your read on villian like was said.. If you notice a trend of him coming from Steal Position or Button each time he's in one of them u might want to teach him a lesson.. U only need to do it once... If he's a tricky player post flop a reraise push u keep him in line... NOTE (kinda risky is someone limped from early to middle position..)Bottom line is Paying attention as much as possible and He'll stick out like a sore thumb when he's being out of line.being out of position gives the very distinct advantage of bluffing first.... espcailly with a ragged flop... again you have to pay attention of the ranges of hands he's playing. What i like about NL is that you can represent the whole range of hands as we all know. Most of them are never shown down anyway.Only way to do that well is to pay attendtion

[Yahkin 0]

Day 1 of poker after dark last week had a great steal re-steal. UTG raises 3x to 900 with KJs. BB is sitting with 1010 and raises it to 5k. UTG thinks for a bit and then pushes 18k. 5 minutes of deliberation and BB finally folds. After the fold, SB guessed BB was holding 1010. He nailed that one, but nobody guessed UTG's holding.

[caribstv 0]

Day 1 of poker after dark last week had a great steal re-steal. UTG raises 3x to 900 with KJs. BB is sitting with 1010 and raises it to 5k. UTG thinks for a bit and then pushes 18k. 5 minutes of deliberation and BB finally folds. After the fold, SB guessed BB was holding 1010. He nailed that one, but nobody guessed UTG's holding.

I would have had to see it.. depends on BB tells if any ..can;t blame BB for folding... either way you have to give UTG respect for raising up front... BB could have guess at worse UTG had AK which he didn't want to be in a coin flip..People don't much thought to position which is a big mistake at times...

[ChrisRichey 1]

That's not quite how the hand went. It was limped around and Lederer had TT in the SB and limped as well. BB raises with KJ or KQ can't remember which. Howard reraises ,BB pushes and he folds.

[jjgoldy5 0]

Another important point to make is the net gain from pulling a resteal is in fact much greater than the chips you gain from pulling the move.It will make other players at the table respect your blinds more, especially if you show your cards.One of the only times I will show is on a resteal. It scares the sh!t out of your opponents when you show 86 on a resteal, you can assume that they will only come after you with real hands for a while from stealing positions. It also might let you get a looser call when you do pick up a big hand in the blinds.Good luck!

[Yahkin 0]

That's not quite how the hand went. It was limped around and Lederer had TT in the SB and limped as well. BB raises with KJ or KQ can't remember which. Howard reraises ,BB pushes and he folds.

Ah that's right. Chad was quite vocal about how this was a squeeze play on his part.

[SlackerInc 0]

That's not quite how the hand went. It was limped around and Lederer had TT in the SB and limped as well. BB raises with KJ or KQ can't remember which. Howard reraises ,BB pushes and he folds.

Yup, and it was KQ suited.