Actuary 3 Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Bellerophone,you've missed the entire point Zach (and subsequently I in this or another thread) have made abot Live vs Online.And for those that understand what he is saying, the educated agree.You advice on playing way over your bankroll and hope luck combined with solid play will prevail, indicates you are immature in the ways of Bankroll management.Are you assuming that one has countless $$$ to reload with? Because that is not what we are talking about. We are talking about a limited amount of money and Ruin Theory and other stuff that people who like to name drop completely irrelevant names into a forum thread, usually know nothing about. Link to post Share on other sites
SCS 0 Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Online you have to rely on reads a lot of times, just as you would in a live game. It's just that online your reads are based mainly on betting patterns, rather than physical tells.Live, you can use betting patterns to get a read on an opponent, but I've found that at most low limit live tables, players have such a wide range of hands and are betting them so weird that it's hard to do so.Bellerophon, you do realize that a lot of the posters here play both live and online and are winners at both?Don't take this as a flame, but I've read a lot of your posts and it seems that you lack a basic understanding of proper strategy and bankroll management, so I don't think you're in any position to claim that poker isn't about cards, or is only about playing the player. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Don't take this as a flame, but I've read a lot of your posts and it seems that you lack a basic understanding of proper strategy and bankroll management, so I don't think you're in any position to claim that poker isn't about cards, or is only about playing the player.Ya, that one. Link to post Share on other sites
Bellerophon 0 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Ok well, first off where do you guys see anything about me telling someone to play over their bankroll? I can't find it anywhere. I was telling him to play low stakes. I supported your opinion in that matter. And where else have I commented on bankroll management? I don't have a problem at all managing my roll. I really don't know where you guys pulled that from. And how was me name dropping two professionals commenting about online poker irrelevant to you guys talking about online poker and Zach mentioning how it is no different from live poker? Makes perfect sense to me. Especially when one of them runs this site. Next time you get upset and flustered over someone's difference in opinion, don't try and talk down to someone you don't even know, calling them uneducated, and putting words in their mouth. I'm not going to bother anymore with you guys, so I'll let you have the last word. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 so I'll let you have the last word. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Ok well, first off where do you guys see anything about me telling someone to play over their bankroll? I can't find it anywhere I plan to start off with $20-$40. Don't listen to these guys about stakes or whatever. I would practice at a .10/20 NL or play some cheap tournaments. .....Moral of the story is that if you play well and get luck on your side, you will be fine. Link to post Share on other sites
Bellerophon 0 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Okay, just to clerify... I believe he meant depositing $20-$40 dollars, not playing $20/$40 Limit. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 $40 is 2 buy-ins for a 10c/20c NL game, yes? so I'll let you have the last word. Link to post Share on other sites
SCS 0 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Ok well, first off where do you guys see anything about me telling someone to play over their bankroll? I can't find it anywhere. I was telling him to play low stakes. I supported your opinion in that matter. And where else have I commented on bankroll management? I don't have a problem at all managing my roll. I really don't know where you guys pulled that from. And how was me name dropping two professionals commenting about online poker irrelevant to you guys talking about online poker and Zach mentioning how it is no different from live poker? Makes perfect sense to me. Especially when one of them runs this site. Next time you get upset and flustered over someone's difference in opinion, don't try and talk down to someone you don't even know, calling them uneducated, and putting words in their mouth. I'm not going to bother anymore with you guys, so I'll let you have the last word.You lost nearly your entire bankroll one time. Another time you lose 1/3 of your bankroll in 2 nights.Yeah, you're right. You have no problems with bankroll management. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but you have to understand that with your record you're going to have little to no credibility.I've seen players like you all the time. They're always trying to "outplay" their opponents, but their basic understanding of the game is so bad that they end up losing in the long run.Look, no one here is saying that online and live play don't have their differences. It's just that there are far more similarities and the differences aren't as big as you make them seem. Even Mike Caro, in his book on tells, states that tells should only be used in combination with other information in a close decision. Link to post Share on other sites
Bellerophon 0 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 You lost nearly your entire bankroll one time. Another time you lose 1/3 of your bankroll in 2 nights.Yeah, you're right. You have no problems with bankroll management. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but you have to understand that with your record you're going to have little to no credibility.I've seen players like you all the time. They're always trying to "outplay" their opponents, but their basic understanding of the game is so bad that they end up losing in the long run.Look, no one here is saying that online and live play don't have their differences. It's just that there are far more similarities and the differences aren't as big as you make them seem. Even Mike Caro, in his book on tells, states that tells should only be used in combination with other information in a close decision.Okay, lol........... I invested $150 and played nothing but satellites and MTT's. Cashed a few times but in the end, it took it's toll. I took $1.20 and turned it into $320....even though I obviously know nothing about poker. Then I played .50/1.00 NL the last few days/nights and had really bad luck. The best players in the world lose and have losing streaks, but manage to win big or have a good run and get ahead. Just as I have done in the past and had done with the $1.20. I never risked my whole roll at one table. The $150 wasn't my entire roll, it was just an investment on the weekend to play some satellites. I didn't win my WSOP seat, or my WPT seat or whatever but I slightly more than doubled my original $150 and then ran into bad luck. Which leaves me where I am at now, scratching my way slowly but surely back in it. So many people on these forums have just been assuming way too much. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 For those who don't read the Tourney forum, here are the links SCS is referring to about Bellerophon not having basic understanding of poker strategy.http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...c=88206&hl=http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...c=88198&hl= Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 $40 is 2 buy-ins for a 10c/20c NL game, yes? Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 I've never seen a 10c/20c NL game. Usually 10c/25c, with a $25 buyin, so yeah, you're right in theory, anyways. Link to post Share on other sites
SCS 0 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Okay, lol........... I invested $150 and played nothing but satellites and MTT's. Cashed a few times but in the end, it took it's toll.Pretty much the text book definition of bad bankroll management.I took $1.20 and turned it into $320....even though I obviously know nothing about poker.I've seen no evidence that this statement isn't true. I'm not talking about just this thread either.Then I played .50/1.00 NL the last few days/nights and had really bad luck. The best players in the world lose and have losing streaks, but manage to win big or have a good run and get ahead. Just as I have done in the past and had done with the $1.20. I never risked my whole roll at one table. The $150 wasn't my entire roll, it was just an investment on the weekend to play some satellites. I didn't win my WSOP seat, or my WPT seat or whatever but I slightly more than doubled my original $150 and then ran into bad luck. Which leaves me where I am at now, scratching my way slowly but surely back in it. So many people on these forums have just been assuming way too much.I only assume that your a mediocre player at best with horrible bankroll management because of the posts that you make. Advocating 2 buyins for a nl game is silly.I am curious though, what stakes do you play and what bankroll do you have for the games? Link to post Share on other sites
SCS 0 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 For those who don't read the Tourney forum, here are the links SCS is referring to about Bellerophon not having basic understanding of poker strategy.http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...c=88206&hl=http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...c=88198&hl= Folding when a 70% favorite is JFarrellish bad. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 For those who don't read the Tourney forum, here are the links SCS is referring to about Bellerophon not having basic understanding of poker strategy.http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...c=88206&hl=http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...c=88198&hl= Great_Dane?ias, it's good to see moderating hasn't made you nice. Link to post Share on other sites
Bellerophon 0 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Folding when a 70% favorite is JFarrellish bad.I never advocated folding when a 70% favorite. That would be dumb. Link to post Share on other sites
SCS 0 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 I never advocated folding when a 70% favorite. That would be dumb.Maybe you didn't advocate folding as a 70% favorite, but you did seem to think it wasn't that great. Too even think about folding as that big of a favorite you'd have to be insane.If I'm a 70% favorite to win a hand then I'm trying my best to get as much money into the pot as possible. You're rarely better than a 70% favorite. Link to post Share on other sites
Bellerophon 0 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 I totally agree. On the other side of te spectrum you'll be happy to know that I just lost the remainder of my funds to a set of 4's. I had a set of 3's. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 aparently you were just kidding when you said you were done with us Link to post Share on other sites
SCS 0 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 I totally agree. On the other side of te spectrum you'll be happy to know that I just lost the remainder of my funds to a set of 4's. I had a set of 3's. Seriously, if you lost all your funds on one hand, then you're playing way above your bankroll. Link to post Share on other sites
Bellerophon 0 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Seriously, if you lost all your funds on one hand, then you're playing way above your bankroll.I didnt lose all my funds, just what I had remaining from my 3 days of cold cards. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 I didnt lose all my funds, just what I had remaining from my 3 days of cold cards.3 days of cold cards should not break you. Link to post Share on other sites
Bellerophon 0 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 3 days of cold cards should not break you.i agree zach, its just what i had remaining and what i had been playing with the last few days. im not in debt, im just even now. Link to post Share on other sites
SCS 0 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 i agree zach, its just what i had remaining and what i had been playing with the last few days. im not in debt, im just even now.Sorry if I don't understand you. Could you please explain this?Also, could you answer my previous question about what stakes you play and what your bankroll is?Just trying to get a better understanding of where you're coming from. Link to post Share on other sites
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