Kdqd

[meservery 0]

Full Table - 9 playersUTG - UTG+1 - HERO ($250)MP1 - VILLIAN 1 ($300)MP2 -MP3 - Cutoff - VILLIAN 2 ($350)Button -SB - BB -Villian 1 plays lots of hands, but has not called any of my preflop raises to this point. Doesn't seem very good...Villian 2 seems to be a very successful LAG player. Always open raises. Sometimes makes big preflop raises after people limp into pot. Can take down many pots on flop or turn.Situation:Hero Dealt KdQd UTG + 1Personally this is my least favorite hand, especially UTG, UTG+1. I had folded KQo twice in early position already in this session... I was suited though, so whatever.Hero Open Raises to $12. VILLIAN 1 calls. VILLIAN 2 calls.Pot - $39Flop:T, K, x (rainbow)Hero bets $21Villian 1 CallsVillian 2 CallsTurn:Td, Kh, x, JdHero ChecksVillian 1 Bets $45Villian 2 Raises to $90Hero?

[IBFT 0]

you have TP (which is probably no good) and an OESFD... You have 8 outs to the absolute nuts (any ace any 9) and 7 additional flush outs. So we're looking at 15 outs, and you have 217 behind with the pot containing about 237.. You're getting 2.5-1ish to make the call, which is the right price, since you're at worst 30% to win this hand with one card to come.. I probably push, however.(Yea, Im guessing 5 people will come after me and tell me why its wrong to push here, listen to them, not me )

[zipper 0]

you have TP (which is probably no good) and an OESFD... You have 8 outs to the absolute nuts (any ace any 9) and 7 additional flush outs. So we're looking at 15 outs, and you have 217 behind with the pot containing about 237.. You're getting 2.5-1ish to make the call, which is the right price, since you're at worst 30% to win this hand with one card to come.. I probably push, however.(Yea, Im guessing 5 people will come after me and tell me why its wrong to push here, listen to them, not me )

It is possible that one of them is playing AQ or Q9 so 6 outs might be to a push or loss. It is also possible that one is playing the Ace high flush draw and you could lose that too. That is the bad news, the good news is you have a monster draw and cannot fear all that could go wrong.My question is, when you checked the flop, what were you thinking you would do if someone bet? You have a big draw with top pair, were you going to check raise or just call? I assume a fold was out of the question. My line would have been to lead into the pot for about 3/4 the pot and see what happens after me. By leading you could price out the Ace high flush draw with one to come. Given the way you played it and the action, it truly depends on your plan when you checked. The way this played out, if you did not have a plan when you checked you could fold this since many of your draws can be beat and the action says the hands are strong. If your plan was to check raise I would now change it to a check call and see what the river brings.

[IBFT 0]

It is possible that one of them is playing AQ or Q9 so 6 outs might be to a push or loss. It is also possible that one is playing the Ace high flush draw and you could lose that too. That is the bad news, the good news is you have a monster draw and cannot fear all that could go wrong.My question is, when you checked the flop, what were you thinking you would do if someone bet? You have a big draw with top pair, were you going to check raise or just call? I assume a fold was out of the question. My line would have been to lead into the pot for about 3/4 the pot and see what happens after me. By leading you could price out the Ace high flush draw with one to come. Given the way you played it and the action, it truly depends on your plan when you checked. The way this played out, if you did not have a plan when you checked you could fold this since many of your draws can be beat and the action says the hands are strong. If your plan was to check raise I would now change it to a check call and see what the river brings.

I, of course, considered the fact that someone might have the ace of diamonds in their hand, and that someone could have AQ or Q9. The reason I sort of dismissed the higher flush draw is this: What did they call on the flop with? It couldnt have been Ad Qd, we have the Qd. So the only logical conclusion is Ad xd(with x being whatever x was on the flop?). Is someone calling $21 with bottom pair and a back door flush draw? I dunno. As far as AQ or Q9, again, you're calling 21 on a gutshot, so the only one that that really makes sense to me for is villain 2, since he had the bet and a call, so now he might feel like he's getting proper odds to do so (this is somewhat supported by the fact that he's the one that min raises on the turn).The reads OP provided dont seem to help much in this case. However, I agree, we should have lead the flop. Lots of hands we can be up against here, but as you alluded to, the only ones we're worried about are a made straight or a better flush draw, since that kills our outs; a set or two pair is fine here.If we dont put anyone on a flush (draw) or a straight) then I believe pushing is correct here, because a set or two pair probably doesnt pay us off if any of our draws hit.If we put someone on a higher flush draw or a made straight, then i think its between fold and call, and we have to discount our non-diamond 9s as outs. because we dont want to go broke to AQ.

[krup24 0]

why are we checking the turn here?

[meservery 0]

My question is, when you checked the flop(lead on flop, checked turn), what were you thinking you would do if someone bet? You have a big draw with top pair, were you going to check raise or just call? I assume a fold was out of the question. My line would have been to lead into the pot for about 3/4 the pot and see what happens after me. By leading you could price out the Ace high flush draw with one to come.

my plan was to call a bet. when villian 2 raised villian 1... my thinking changed.

why are we checking the turn here?

not sure. my head was spinning during this hand. maybe it was all those 3 dollar chips. 1/3 confuses me.

[Draylion 0]

my plan was to call a bet. when villian 2 raised villian 1... my thinking changed.not sure. my head was spinning during this hand. maybe it was all those 3 dollar chips. 1/3 confuses me.

Are we not putting Villian 1 on KJ? We've ruled out Ad and xd since him calling with NPND seems well.. not the smart thing to do. He leads out with two pair on the turn after you checked it, only to get reraised by the made hand of Villian 2. It could justify his post flop call as well, as he spiked TP with a decent kicker, but it wouldn't jusifty his preflop call .. but who knows.. people like KJ oop.. /shrug

[krup24 0]

my plan was to call a bet. when villian 2 raised villian 1... my thinking changed.

This is why we lead the turn it makes the decision a no brainer, we lead villian 1 calls, villian 2 min raises, we can squeeze or call here.With the way you played it your only option is a push IMO.

[fckthis 0]

Shouldve bet the turn here.

[meservery 0]

Are we not putting Villian 1 on KJ? We've ruled out Ad and xd since him calling with NPND seems well.. not the smart thing to do. He leads out with two pair on the turn after you checked it, only to get reraised by the made hand of Villian 2. It could justify his post flop call as well, as he spiked TP with a decent kicker, but it wouldn't jusifty his preflop call .. but who knows.. people like KJ oop.. /shrug

goddamn! that's as fine a fukking first post as you'll ever find. nice hand.

[nutzbuster 7]

That flop???ALL IN on the flop. Kill that shiiitt right there, make them pay dearly for drawing.

[meservery 0]

That flop???ALL IN on the flop. Kill that shiiitt right there, make them pay dearly for drawing.

sure... if i had flopped the open ended straight flush draw with top pair.

[_Great_Dane_ 0]

I had the same hand against two other players with about the same chip stacks about a month ago. I pushed all in on the turn and I got two callers. One caller had a king with a weak kicker, the other caller reluctantly called with a lesser flush draw. I don't even remember my river card. I do remember raking the pot toward myself, though.

[wumarkus 0]

you should have known better than to play KQ - how's that for a first post!?

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

why are we checking the turn here?

Because we want to give up control of a hand we shouldn't have been playing to begin with after our money card hits the turn?

you should have known better than to play KQ - how's that for a first post!?

Beautiful.

[Scott3705 0]

If you're going to play this preflop, limp it. This way everyone is poking around in the dark. The only reason to check this turn is to C/R all in which is what I think hero should do here. to everyone saying lead the turn, betting allows us to get blown out of this pot doesn't it? (although it wouldn't if we limped preflop).

[meservery 0]

Because we want to give up control of a hand we shouldn't have been playing to begin with after our money card hits the turn?

ISAP?so basically even if i'm behind to 2 pair, a straight, or a set...i should be getting all my money in anyway with a draw this big with only one card to come?

[Royal_Tour 0]

i havent read anything here,its probably all garbage anyways,the 1-3 game at the Wynn is donkuliscious, but with that said, the open raise of 12 is ok. sometime AK just smooth calls here and wont re-raise, so thats our only real worry with the K flop.but with out TP 2nd kicker, and open ended straight flush draw, I jam this like its goin out of style why? because i only have 250 at the 1-3 NL table no max buy in at the wynn.

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

ISAP?

Maybe, maybe not, you just misplayed the hand--everyone does..no worries.

[meservery 0]

If you're going to play this preflop, limp it. This way everyone is poking around in the dark.

i usually play tournaments so 99% of the time im opening for a raise. should i be taking a different approach in cash games? i've found that limping from early position will just allow 7 or 8 players to come in cheaply and with any 2 cards. hand reading is tough enough as it is against one person let alone 5 plus.i guess with this flop and turn it really wouldnt matter cause in this hand i have this monster draw but does anyone else consider limping under the gun with a hand like this?

[Scott3705 0]

i usually play tournaments so 99% of the time im opening for a raise. should i be taking a different approach in cash games? i've found that limping from early position will just allow 7 or 8 players to come in cheaply and with any 2 cards. hand reading is tough enough as it is against one person let alone 5 plus.i guess with this flop and turn it really wouldnt matter cause in this hand i have this monster draw but does anyone else consider limping under the gun with a hand like this?

I consider folding this hand in a tight game UTG and I will limp it in a loose game. I'd honestly rather play this hand against 7 people OOP than HU OOP. It's going to play much more straightforward against the 7 people cause you're not going to be dealing w/ reverse implied odds. We're never going to play a pot with tp2k anyway, so I don't think it's bad to just see a flop. 6 handed riase it up obviously though.I know this isn't a tournament section, but 90% of the time (unless I have a huge stack) I'm folding this preflop from UTG. Anyone else do that too?

[caribstv 0]

I consider folding this hand in a tight game UTG and I will limp it in a loose game. I'd honestly rather play this hand against 7 people OOP than HU OOP. It's going to play much more straightforward against the 7 people cause you're not going to be dealing w/ reverse implied odds. We're never going to play a pot with tp2k anyway, so I don't think it's bad to just see a flop. 6 handed riase it up obviously though.I know this isn't a tournament section, but 90% of the time (unless I have a huge stack) I'm folding this preflop from UTG. Anyone else do that too?

I would consider fold this .. If you had bet then see what they both do you would have had a clearer understanding where you are in the hand.Since u checked and then a bet from V1 then a raise from V2 you might be facing a Move from V1 are u prepared to call that?? TWO pair we;re behind, trips we're behind, Ace High Flush draw we're dead if we catch it and someone prob already have a straight... If you have Fat pockets here .. if you move in it wouldn't be a bad MOVE since you're the preflop rasier but its a chance yo'd have to take.... Super LAG like myself in the heat of battle would Push and see where the smoke clears maybe you can get the Flush draws to fold and be faced hoping to hit the flush if called

[kwantum 0]

Main issue I have with this hand is that you bet way too small on the flop. You bet barely 1/2 the pot almost like you planned on milking the hand. TPGK is not that strong, especially versus two opponents with position. I don't know why you'd eliminate AQ from their holdings either, I call bets like that all day with a gutshot for exactly that reason. The preflop raiser (especially real tight players) never thinks you'd call for that gutshot, but when they stick it in on the turn against the nuts, you're giving them implied odds to make those flop calls. Not saying either of them had AQ, but I certainly wouldn't eliminate it from their hand ranges.The way you played this, I would probably fold the turn. A bet from a weaker player on the turn, and then a min-raise from a good LAG? I'm out of the pot after that action.