calling with ace high

[strategy 4]

Depends on what you're goal for the tourney is.

Here's what I said earlier:At the time, I didn't think the fold was worth it because:1) The buyin is 5.50 and 4th pays 9, 1st pays 36.2) I look at these sngs as disposable. The tournament itself is less important to me than making the right decision every hand. I'm not going to fold a 60-40 advantage unless I'm sitting on a large stack and a slightly larger one is all in against me. Bottom line, I don't treat these as the world series, I treat them as a way to make money. My goal is, and always will be, to get myself to the heads up match with a fighting chance at first. I don't think I've ever limped into the money. I prefer going out on the bubble or getting 1st/2nd over taking 4th place money with no shot at anything higher.

[CobaltBlue 662]

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but this is a tangentially related story that happened today...I had AKos in late position. Raised 4x BB or so. One limper called. Flop was 2c3c7c. I didn't have a club, but I bet out 10x BB. The guy goes all-in for 8x BB more. After some deliberation, I put him on a stone cold bluff, so I make the call. He flips over QJos. Unfortunately, his jack is a club and he hits another on the turn.At first, I was proud of the read and knowing that I had the best hand with ace high...but then I looked at the odds and saw that he was post-flop favorite. Was I justified in making the ace-high call?

[strategy 4]

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but this is a tangentially related story that happened today...I had AKos in late position. Raised 4x BB or so. One limper called. Flop was 2c3c7c. I didn't have a club, but I bet out 10x BB. The guy goes all-in for 8x BB more. After some deliberation, I put him on a stone cold bluff, so I make the call. He flips over QJos. Unfortunately, his jack is a club and he hits another on the turn.At first, I was proud of the read and knowing that I had the best hand with ace high...but then I looked at the odds and saw that he was post-flop favorite. Was I justified in making the ace-high call?

I'm sure some of the people that responded to this thread that I played my hand terribly would tell you that no, you were not justified in making the call.The fact is that you had to make it if you put him on a bluff. You were facing a bet of 8BB in a pot of roughly 36.5BB. Given that your read told you he was probably semibluffing a flush draw, you had to call. The only likely hand he could have that would have you crushed would be a pocket pair with a club (making you a pretty big dog).The way I look at it, your read was right, and you were in a coin flip situation, therefore it was the right move that time. It doesn't really matter that he was a slight favorite when the money went in; you only had to call 8BB more for a 50% shot at a 36.5BB pot.

[TheSpartan 0]

My question is this: Can anyone defend folding in this spot, assuming that you know ace high is good?

Do you expect anyone who has even an ounce of poker skill to suggest that this would be anything other than an extremely bad call? First, you DO NOT know if he has anything. Second, even the assumption that Ace high is the best hand is false - if he has a flush or straight draw he has the best hand. Third, if players are going to play this stupid and not even be able to double up with a stone cold bluff, you'll find a better spot to take his money.

[strategy 4]

Do you expect anyone who has even an ounce of poker skill to suggest that this would be anything other than an extremely bad call? First, you DO NOT know if he has anything. Second, even the assumption that Ace high is the best hand is false - if he has a flush or straight draw he has the best hand. Third, if players are going to play this stupid and not even be able to double up with a stone cold bluff, you'll find a better spot to take his money.

Did you even read the responses to this? I have answered this multiple times, because you are not the first that has missed the intent. I don't care what you think about the play in the hand; I wanted some reasoning behind folding, accepting the given facts with the situation.

First, you DO NOT know if he has anything.

What an 'extremely bad' assumption. I'm sorry if I missed you, but I didn't realize you were at the table with me. Look at the level. At that point in the tournament, I'd played a few hands with him. I knew his tendencies and had an idea of what he held based on his betting pattern. It's called "making a read," and I sometimes do it. Welcome to poker.

Second, even the assumption that Ace high is the best hand is false - if he has a flush or straight draw he has the best hand.

This, again, assuming you know more than I do about a person you've never played with. Poker is a game about watching and adjusting to the styles of the other players. Saying a play was 'extremely bad' having never watched the players in question more than one hand is both absurd and baseless.

Third, if players are going to play this stupid and not even be able to double up with a stone cold bluff, you'll find a better spot to take his money.

'Players' were not playing stupid in that tournament. One player, namely that guy, was playing like a maniac. I could take you through my thoughts on his play, but you're likely to dismiss them and tell me I don't really "know" anything in a game of limited knowledge anyway.

[TheSpartan 0]

Strategy,You don't have to listen to any advise given. If you think you can read someone, especially a maniac, with absolute certainty - well, I wish you the best. However, don't expect a single player who has any skill to believe you can read someone 100%, or agree with your call. Blind stealing a maniac and chip leader is not a good idea. And they most certianly know the best way to take down a maniac is NOT with A high on the flop when they have position on them at the table.

[strategy 4]

Strategy,You don't have to listen to any advise given. If you think you can read someone, especially a maniac, with absolute certainty - well, I wish you the best. However, don't expect a single player who has any skill to believe you can read someone 100%, or agree with your call. Blind stealing a maniac and chip leader is not a good idea. And they most certianly know the best way to take down a maniac is NOT with A high on the flop when they have position on them at the table.

I'm open to advice on the situation. The hand? Not so much. I'm satisfied with how it went.The intent behind the post (which you, and many others have missed) is to ask if it's reasonable to call in situations where you know you're only taking a 60-40 edge on the bubble. I don't care what you think about how the hand was played, or whether my call was correct, or what have you. I'm satisfied with how I got my money in and my tournament results speak for themselves.In cash games, it's quite alright to take an edge like that knowing you can do it over and over again and show a profit in the long run. In the WSOP, it's clearly a different story. But an online sit and go?