How Stupid Do U Have To Be To Believe In God?

[Zealous Donkey 0]

So, you believe that heaven is a physical place on top of the sky dome, that Christ was LITERALLY raised up to the top of the sky dome, and that he will return within the lifetime of the original apsotles to lead a rightious army to cleanse the evil from this world?Nice.You so rarely find someone that still believes that heaven is a physical place abve the sky dome and Jesus will be retuning within 50 years of his resurection.

I believe there is a heaven out past the first and second heavens which are the ones you are describing as a dome. First heaven = atmosphere, second heaven = space As far as the dome reference I dont' really know what you are talking about, but I have heard some commentaries which sort of describe earth as sort of a biodome, which was removed during the great flood, leaving us with what we have now. Is that what you are talking about? I haven't spent much time thinking about that kind of thing, it isn't important. There are also commentaries which interpret, in spripture, that the writers knew the earth was round. I will see if I can find that and link it here.http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/c/1161194282-74.html Here is link for Hebrew translationhttp://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/wor...95156-3879.htmlSee commentaries on Isaiah 40:22 if interested.

[WrongWay 0]

I believe there is a heaven out past the first and second heavens which are the ones you are describing as a dome. First heaven = atmosphere, second heaven = space

This is how psychics get it correctly so often. They say stuff, then when it is shown to be wrong, they "reinterprit" what they said to fit what happened.Bible says there is a dome over our heads, and above that dome is a layer of water. When the windows of heaven are opened, the water above the dome falls to the earth as rain. The dome was not taken away in the flood. The flood was the first time the windows in the dome were opened. Second heaven was where God lived, above the water above the dome.If heaven is not a physical place, then what happend to the body of Jesus when he was raised up to heaven to sit at the right hand of himself.

[Zealous Donkey 0]

This is how psychics get it correctly so often. They say stuff, then when it is shown to be wrong, they "reinterprit" what they said to fit what happened.Bible says there is a dome over our heads, and above that dome is a layer of water. When the windows of heaven are opened, the water above the dome falls to the earth as rain. The dome was not taken away in the flood. The flood was the first time the windows in the dome were opened. Second heaven was where God lived, above the water above the dome.If heaven is not a physical place, then what happend to the body of Jesus when he was raised up to heaven to sit at the right hand of himself.

I added some links to my last post if you are interested. http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/wor...95156-3879.html

[WrongWay 0]

http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/wor...95156-3879.html

Wiat... wait... you link to THIS to prove that heaven is not a dome??????????"It is] he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof [are] as grasshoppers ; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in" The Earth was seen as a flat circle with a dome of heaven above it... Of coure the dome would be circular shape. As for heaven being a TENT for us to dwell in... sometime the other side does your job for you... Thanks for saving me time search for quotes NOT NEARLY this telling!

[Zealous Donkey 0]

Wiat... wait... you link to THIS to prove that heaven is not a dome??????????"It is] he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof [are] as grasshoppers ; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in" !

No, I linked that to show that there are some bible commentaries believe Isiah 40:22 proves that the bible says the earth is round. There are many others that say it means flat circle or disk. Most likely, it is metaphorical, because most of the other references to the earth especially in Rev: describe the four corners of the earth, which would mean they are describing a flat 4 cornered earth.( if taken literally) Rev, obviously is metaphorical. I will not deny that the writers may have indeed thought the world was a flat circle at the time. They were not physics teachers, they were writing to spread Gods word in a way that could be understood, thus it was presented in the frame of reference most easily understood and applicable at that time.

[Loismustdie 0]

Wiat... wait... you link to THIS to prove that heaven is not a dome??????????"It is] he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof [are] as grasshoppers ; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in" The Earth was seen as a flat circle with a dome of heaven above it... Of coure the dome would be circular shape. As for heaven being a TENT for us to dwell in... sometime the other side does your job for you... Thanks for saving me time search for quotes NOT NEARLY this telling!

Or he was saying that the earth is a sphere, and the other lines are reffering to the atmosphere/slash bisphere(a tent) which all of the grasshoppers(us) live under. Just an idea.

[Guest NICKKNACK]

My Cat is In HEaVeaN

[WrongWay 0]

Or he was saying that the earth is a sphere, and the other lines are reffering to the atmosphere/slash bisphere(a tent) which all of the grasshoppers(us) live under. Just an idea.

How can you walk on the atmosphere? The passage describes God walking on heaven. If it is a sphere, how can he look down on all of it?When is that last time you stayed in a tent that was spherical?How does the atmosphere make since when other passages of the Bible describe the sky as being made firm, being poured out like a mirror, having windows which can be opened to allow the water above the sky to fall to the earth as rain? No, no...... This passage and MANY, MANY others make it clear that the authors of the Bible viewed the earth as a flat, circular disk, covered with a sky dome, with God being a physical being that lived on top of the sky dome. There is a layer of water above the sky dome, and when the windows of heaven are opened, the water above the sky dome falls to the earth as rain. When Jesus was raised up to heaven, it was his physical body that was lifted up to the very physical heaven, to sit at the right hand of a very physical God that lived on top of the sky dome a couple miles above our heads.

[WrongWay 0]

they were writing to spread Gods word in a way that could be understood, thus it was presented in the frame of reference most easily understood and applicable at that time.

Or, maybe, just maybe, they were WRONG! We know Babylonian religion predates and we know that the Babylonians viewed the world as a being flat and covered by a dome. It was the body of a dead seamonster that was hollowed out. The Gods were physical being that lived in the mansions... the portions of the dead monster that were above our heads.The Babylonians also have a story of the great flood and a Sodom and Gomorrah type story. Much of Genisis is VERY similar to Babylonina mythology.Which is more likely.... 1) The writers of the Bible had special knowledge of the true nature of the Universe, but decided to obfuscate this knowledge by making it match other beliefs of the time to help people understand what they were trying to say.2) Biblical story of Genisis is a false mythology just like other religions. It evolved from older religins, and like them, contains no special knowledge usable by modern humans for anything other than a historical and anthropoligcal study of the origins of our culture.

[Flack_attack 0]

Or, maybe since this (Babelonian?) mythology did exist, explaning God in similar terms could help people understand God, what Zealous was saying.

[Loismustdie 0]

How can you walk on the atmosphere? The passage describes God walking on heaven. If it is a sphere, how can he look down on all of it?When is that last time you stayed in a tent that was spherical?How does the atmosphere make since when other passages of the Bible describe the sky as being made firm, being poured out like a mirror, having windows which can be opened to allow the water above the sky to fall to the earth as rain? No, no...... This passage and MANY, MANY others make it clear that the authors of the Bible viewed the earth as a flat, circular disk, covered with a sky dome, with God being a physical being that lived on top of the sky dome. There is a layer of water above the sky dome, and when the windows of heaven are opened, the water above the sky dome falls to the earth as rain. When Jesus was raised up to heaven, it was his physical body that was lifted up to the very physical heaven, to sit at the right hand of a very physical God that lived on top of the sky dome a couple miles above our heads.

Show me the many, many others. That would be nice.

[WrongWay 0]

Show me the many, many others. That would be nice.

Read this....http://www.infidelguy.com/heaven_sky.htm

[DonkSlayer 1]

Read this....http://www.infidelguy.com/heaven_sky.htm

Very interesting reading. It would be cool if they confronted the question, "Why?" Why would they copy legend? Why would they incorporate stories that "did" sound like old ones others had heard from previous religions? Wouldn't that have hurt its legitimacy?

[WrongWay 0]

Very interesting reading. It would be cool if they confronted the question, "Why?" Why would they copy legend? Why would they incorporate stories that "did" sound like old ones others had heard from previous religions? Wouldn't that have hurt its legitimacy?

Becuase, the only constant is change.Complex things do not poof magically into existance. They evolve over a very long time through billions of very small changes.The Judaisitic mythology did not "poof" into existnace, nor was it created by a conspiracy of super-intelligent con-men with the intention of duping the populace.... (Nor was it handed down from God.) It, like every other complex thing, developed slowly over time through lots of little changes to the things that came before it.Humans share genes with every other animal on earth, because we and they evolved from common ancestor species. The closer in the evolutionary tree, the more common genes.Judiaism shares concepts with other religions, because they evolved from common ancestor mythologies. The closer the time and place of the origin, the more common beliefs they share.

[Loismustdie 0]

How can you walk on the atmosphere? The passage describes God walking on heaven. If it is a sphere, how can he look down on all of it?When is that last time you stayed in a tent that was spherical?How does the atmosphere make since when other passages of the Bible describe the sky as being made firm, being poured out like a mirror, having windows which can be opened to allow the water above the sky to fall to the earth as rain? No, no...... This passage and MANY, MANY others make it clear that the authors of the Bible viewed the earth as a flat, circular disk, covered with a sky dome, with God being a physical being that lived on top of the sky dome. There is a layer of water above the sky dome, and when the windows of heaven are opened, the water above the sky dome falls to the earth as rain. When Jesus was raised up to heaven, it was his physical body that was lifted up to the very physical heaven, to sit at the right hand of a very physical God that lived on top of the sky dome a couple miles above our heads.

Stop being so literal. God is a spirit- how can a spirit walk? The writer is giving God physical properties to deliver a message. And, all of these things, are not to be translated literaly. Sort of if I were to say that " the rain was coming down in sheets." The rain is not actually coming down in sheets, it's just a way to describe how it appears. Even a person who argues that the bible is incorrect- Crowtrobot, for instance- is completely ignoring this whole line of thought. Why do you think that is? Hint, hint- it's a really, really silly line of thinking. Hers is a scripture for you:[49] Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest? Is the earth actually a place for God to physically rest his feet? How about scriptures where he tellls you to take up your cross, or refers to your cross- do we literally have a cross we carry around? No. It's figurative. Part of the problem- no, all of the problem is the bible was written to christians, for christians. It's meant to be taught by christians as well, who have the Holy Spirit to guide them in understanding. You don't have that, so while you can understand some, most of it is just beyond your scope of understanding, and you end up where you are currently at- going around in circles with weird translations that make sense to no one but you.

[zzz 0]

Stop being so literal. God is a spirit- how can a spirit walk? The writer is giving God physical properties to deliver a message. And, all of these things, are not to be translated literaly. Sort of if I were to say that " the rain was coming down in sheets." The rain is not actually coming down in sheets, it's just a way to describe how it appears. Even a person who argues that the bible is incorrect- Crowtrobot, for instance- is completely ignoring this whole line of thought. Why do you think that is? Hint, hint- it's a really, really silly line of thinking. Hers is a scripture for you:[49] Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest? Is the earth actually a place for God to physically rest his feet? How about scriptures where he tellls you to take up your cross, or refers to your cross- do we literally have a cross we carry around? No. It's figurative. Part of the problem- no, all of the problem is the bible was written to christians, for christians. It's meant to be taught by christians as well, who have the Holy Spirit to guide them in understanding. You don't have that, so while you can understand some, most of it is just beyond your scope of understanding, and you end up where you are currently at- going around in circles with weird translations that make sense to no one but you.

How do you know?

[Loismustdie 0]

How do you know?

I have it, not to mention years of experience being around people who do as well, and the manifestation of God and the Holy Spirit throgh the examples that they put forth each and every day.

[zzz 0]

I have it, not to mention years of experience being around people who do as well, and the manifestation of God and the Holy Spirit throgh the examples that they put forth each and every day.

How do you know?

[Loismustdie 0]

How do you know?

Faith that the bible isn't lying, and that at baptism I received the Holy Spirit.

[zzz 0]

Faith that the bible isn't lying, and that at baptism I received the Holy Spirit.

Why do you believe the bible isn't lying when it talks about people in hell forever? How is that not a fear promoting opinion?

[Loismustdie 0]

Why do you believe the bible isn't lying when it talks about people in hell forever? How is that not a fear promoting opinion?

That should instill fear- if you are on your way to hell. If you're not, you live without fear. You are also misusing the word opinion- for a chrsitian who believes the bible, it's fact.

[zzz 0]

That should instill fear- if you are on your way to hell. If you're not, you live without fear. You are also misusing the word opinion- for a chrsitian who believes the bible, it's fact.

Is it really a fact though?

[Loismustdie 0]

Is it really a fact though?

Yes. Don't believe it and see. No skin off of my back.And, let me make this clear- if you highlight something and say "How do you know?" I will leap through this screen and whoop you like a red-headed step child. I'm just serious. Still applies.

[zzz 0]

Yes. Don't believe it and see. No skin off of my back.

So it is still a belief? Why do you strongly belief in eternal hell? Does it make you happy to "know" your all powerful God is allowing lost souls to eternally suffer? If no, what is the point of the belief?

[Loismustdie 0]

So it is still a belief? Why do you strongly belief in eternal hell? Does it make you happy to "know" your all powerful God is allowing lost souls to eternally suffer? If no, what is the point of the belief?

It doesn't make me happy. If I do things right, it shouldn't affect me. Everyone has to stand on his own, I cannot live life for them. Sort of like I can't work for a homeless guy, my powers really don't reach past me and who I can talk to/effect. The point of the belief? To get me to heaven- that's it. Everyone walks before God on his own.