Define Weak To Strong Hands

[Brew29 0]

i frequently read and hear players talk about a strong or a weak hand, however i am not really sure what one would consider a strong hand or a weak hand. What do you think is strong or weak? would everything from say A high to two pair be considered weak and trips on up strong? what do you think?

[FullMontyM1 0]

Your question is a tad overbroad. Strong or weak hand depends on the game you are playing, the board, the players you are playing against, your position, and other factors.You're playing NLHE. You're in the big blind with J10off, button (who appears to be a decent, tight player) raises 3x BB. Flop comes:J-10-2 rainbow.Your two-pair is a strong hand.You're playing LHE. You're in the big blind with 5d4d. Five people limp in front of you. You check. Flop comes:As-Ac-5hWith five limpers there is a good chance someone has a higher pair or Arag. Checks around to you. You bet. Fold, fold, fold, call, raise. Your two-pair is weak here.Monty

[Swift_Psycho 1]

Monty answered you about as well as possible. Your question is extremely broad. Circumstances are everything, and perhaps even especially so in NLHE.If you are playing someone who is in every hand, aggressively betting and raising, when you flop two pair it's a monster. If you are against an extremely passive pre-flop and post-flop player and he raises you when you flop two pair, suddenly you may not see your hand as so strong anymore.If there's a hand in particular you are curious about, try posting it and we'll take a look and try to help you out. If not, then there really isn't much more anyone can say because of how vague the question is.

[AceyDeucy 0]

i frequently read and hear players talk about a strong or a weak hand, however i am not really sure what one would consider a strong hand or a weak hand. What do you think is strong or weak? would everything from say A high to two pair be considered weak and trips on up strong? what do you think?

Strength is a combination of three things: 1. The actual rank of your hand, relative to the best possible hand with the current board. 2. The rank of your hand relative to hands likely to be in play, given the action.3. The vulnerability of your hand to draws, given the board. (Or, inversely, the strength and number of (re)draws for your hand, given the board.)You: JTo Board: JT982 with four of a suit you don't have. your top two pair is very weak because there are a ton of single cards that destroy your hand.You: 23 Board: K 9 7 3 2. Your bottom two pair fairly strong, since there are no straight draws, and no likely two-pair hands. If it was raised preflop (and you deliriously called) you are even stronger. However, on a flop of K 3 2, your bottom two pair are in an extremely precarious position, given that either pair can be counterfeited by the board pairing, or a King hitting his kicker. A small set would be in a much stronger position, because a paired board would promote the hand to Full House, rather than counterfeiting half of it into a mediocre two pair.You: 88 Board: 8 4 3. You are extremely strong. Even if someone makes a straight, you have a lot of redraws past a straight or a flush, and you hold the current nuts.You: 56 Board: 9 8 7 10 3. You are somewhat weak. You hold the wrong end of the straight. Get the general drift?

[Actuary 3]

all of you put 13x more thought into your responses than OP put into his question.I'm amused.And proudAll at the same time.

[AceyDeucy 0]

all of you put 13x more thought into your responses than OP put into his question.I'm amused.And proudAll at the same time.

Awww, I feel all warm and fuzzy now.And annoyed.All at the same time.

[FullMontyM1 0]

To follow up AceyDeucy's post, all of those examples illustrate the importance of playing premium hands, especially when out of position (OOP). When those hands connect they are much less vulnerable to redraws than when lesser holdings connect. Unless you are very confident of your post-flop play you should restrict yourself to premium hands (pairs 10-AA, AKsuited, AK, AQsuited, KQ suited) regardless of your position in the betting cycle and play lesser holdings AJ, A10, KJ, QJ, K10, 99, 88, 77 etc., when you are one of the last two or three to act (button and the two before) or when you are in the blinds and can get in for a discount.If you're just starting to play a lot of hold-em, and you restrict yourself to good starting hands in good position, the chances that you lose money are -dramatically- lowered.Monty

[AceyDeucy 0]

To follow up AceyDeucy's post, all of those examples illustrate the importance of playing premium hands, especially when out of position (OOP). When those hands connect they are much less vulnerable to redraws than when lesser holdings connect. Unless you are very confident of your post-flop play you should restrict yourself to premium hands (pairs 10-AA, AKsuited, AK, AQsuited, KQ suited) regardless of your position in the betting cycle and play lesser holdings AJ, A10, KJ, QJ, K10, 99, 88, 77 etc., when you are one of the last two or three to act (button and the two before) or when you are in the blinds and can get in for a discount.If you're just starting to play a lot of hold-em, and you restrict yourself to good starting hands in good position, the chances that you lose money are -dramatically- lowered.Monty

This is really The Easy But Boring Way to Win at Poker. Consistently play stronger hands from stronger positions than your opponents, and you will win in the long term, provided your postflop play is reasonable, for no reason other than simple math. (If you always go in as a favorite, over time you will win.) The only real downside to this approach is that it takes a lot of patience, and can deprive you of a lot of action if you get labeled as a rock. The idea here is get you in enough hands that you can get a feel for the many "shades of gray" hands so that as you advance your play to where you can make higher degree-of-difficulty plays that are trickier and more profitable (but also potentially very expensive if done incorrectly). Mastering this approach will also give you a reliable fall back if your game ever gets untracked elsewhere.I maintain that my LAG approach is (potentially) much more profitable than this TAG approach Monty describes (notice the recurring importance of aggression, btw), BUT if you are not comfortable making a lot of very marginal decisions for very large pots, playing LAG will evaporate your bankroll in a flash. Anyhow, that is really just looking way down the road. It's not like TAG ever gets to a point where you will expect to lose money consistently.

[FullMontyM1 0]

.I maintain that my LAG approach is (potentially) much more profitable than this TAG approach Monty describes (notice the recurring importance of aggression, btw), BUT if you are not comfortable making a lot of very marginal decisions for very large pots, playing LAG will evaporate your bankroll in a flash.

LAG is definetly more profitable long-run, imho. Just starting out though I think, especially with what they see on TV, they should refrain from this more wheels-off approach to poker.I think a great way to develop a tight style first is to read the some books/chapters (supersystemI/II) on split pot games and play low limit split pot games (Omaha8b or Stud8) focusing on those premium hands you've read about. Almost anyone can beat these games online with a tight-aggressive approach applying the basic fundamentals, since a lot of the people playing these games are just "trying them out" or "signed up for the wrong SnG (lol)" or whatever.I think the value of tight play is much more apparent watching hands in these games, than in NLHE.Then translate the lessons learned to NLHE and you do well. Then loosen up a little and develop your post-flop play, and you will kill.Unfortunately, this is not how I did it. I jumped into places above my skill level and understanding AND BR when I was starting out and didn't get near as far, near as fast I should have. ;P But lessons learned the hard way are just as good, imho.Monty

[AceyDeucy 0]

Unfortunately, this is not how I did it. I jumped into places above my skill level and understanding AND BR when I was starting out and didn't get near as far, near as fast I should have. ;P But lessons learned the hard way are just as good, imho.Monty

You and me both. Your points about building up to it are well-taken.

[Brew29 0]

I want to thank you all for your considerate replies to my, as you termed it, broad question. The question is broad but necessarily so because of the books which I have been reading that often just refer to a "strong or weak hand". I do like the way that ya'll broke down your interpretation of what a strong or weak hand is because it really has helped me to think about it in terms of a given scenario. Thanks for the input.

[AceyDeucy 0]

I want to thank you all for your considerate replies to my, as you termed it, broad question. The question is broad but necessarily so because of the books which I have been reading that often just refer to a "strong or weak hand". I do like the way that ya'll broke down your interpretation of what a strong or weak hand is because it really has helped me to think about it in terms of a given scenario. Thanks for the input.

Hey, that what start forums are for. Ask all you want.

[Actuary 3]

all of you put 13x more thought into your responses than OP put into his question.

don't you feel silly now Actuary?

[AceyDeucy 0]

don't you feel silly now Actuary?

Which one of you schizophrenic?

[10'sorbetter 0]

So you all started to describe playing TAG and then LAG. When I think of LAG, I think of someone playing any two cards and just basically waiting for any sign of weakness..then pounce on the pot. Am I correct? Also to play LAG, doesn't it require a bigger BR (RING) or Stack (MTT) to pull this off.If you could set up an example of someone like myself opening a pot from midposition with likely holdings in this position and, you, being the LAG in +1 to cutoff how would you play. Lets give some examples...TAG has XX and LAG has XX (Please insert a hand that you would play in this situation, not a premium hand but questionable)Like I said I open for a raise and then let's run it three times. I continuation every time. I will tell you what I hold after your analysis, same hand for each flop.Three flops:K 9 7 A 5 7 Q J 8 I'm trying to understand a LAG. I have the ability to read weak to average players. I played this one person who no matter what I had, just raised..and eventually got me to go all in when he had AA. So I'm trying to learn how to battle back. Not necessarily to beat you all (well yes I am) but to learn how this style can help in the proper time and place.Thanks for your help and I'll check back to tell you what I have.