interesting situation

[Big-Ern777 0]

Yes, this situation has probably come up over a dozen times with every player, but still remains one I find hard to call, especially against your average player who may have random aggressiveness at awkward times. The Hand:It's a typical college home game, two tables, 10 players. Blinds are 30/60 and I'm at around 1000 chips, first to act with pocket 7s. I raise 80 on top of the BB to make it 140 to go, button folds, SB folds and BB (who is shortstacked with around 650 chips) calls. Flop comes QQJ rainbow, he checks and to protect my 7s and prevent him from getting a free turn I bet out 100 to represent protection on Js and a committment to the pot. He thinks for about 2 or 3 seconds and then says "all-in". This puts me in a tough spot as I don't know this player too well and from previous hands he seemed like the tight aggressive type. As I'm looking at him he seems nervous and somewhat fidgety, resting his elbow on the table, leaning back, looking at me then looking down. Those tells don't exactly spell out bluff or a monster, but from my experience nervous players usually have a hand and a bluffer wouldn't be moving around as often. So it's 410 more to call, which if I did and lost would put me at roughly 350 and in bad shape, yet if I took the pot down I'd have a comfortable stack to sit on. After about a minute, I lay down the 7s and show and by his facial expression, which is one of humble relief I realize that I've probably been bluffed...damn. Later on he tells me he had 92 off which basically sits in my head the rest of the night and I eventually get the boot going in with K6 shortstacked on a 2 K 2 flop and get called with an AQ! And yes, eventually the fairly large dog with AQ sucks out and Aces the river. What he was thinking I still don't know and this is exactly why college games can be frustrating. Analyzing: My hand: 77 His hand: 92 Flop: QQJ rainbowAlright, so if we start from the beginning we see the short stack defends his BB by calling 80 more to see the flop. He checked and I bet out 100 on the 7s, then fairly quickly he pushes all-in which does set off an alarm in my head as I could easily have Js as I mentioned earlier and a set may sit and ponder about slow play. Considering this, very few hands would have me dead on arrival except for the set of Qs, KK or AA. Considering he was short stacked, it's tough to put him on KK or AA with just a call preflop on my raise of 80 more first to act, so the set is a more likely possibility, but it got me thinking. Even though he's short stacked, your average player would be more likely to just call with the set and keep you in the hand rather than quickly push in and play so aggressively at the flop; this is why him being a tight-aggressive player made this situation difficult. I think it's somewhat safe to eliminate a lower pocket pair as the 100 bet from me at the flop could indicate protection on the Js (though I have pocket 7s) and any lower pocket would have to be pretty courageous and confident on the read to try and make a bluff there and has to expect a good chance of a call from Js, therefore it's more likely that a hand like 55 or even TT would muck. The hand I was thinking he had at the time considering the call on the raise preflop, short stacked, would be something like KJ or TJ and that caused me to muck. Then again, if he had Js it's still a tough decision to push in then and there with two Qs on the board along with me possible having him outkicked with AJ and showing strength with a fairly large flop bet. To put him on rags such as 92 preflop was a less than likely thought (rationally) as a short stacked, tight-aggressive player would usually muck that in an instance, but I guess he felt he had to protect his blind. I could have checked the 7s there and played it safe, but at the time it didn't seem like the right move since he called the preflop raise and I didn't want to give him any chance of catching considering an 8 or higher would make my decision even more difficult on the turn. In my opinion, it was a decent bluff and really put me to the test as I had the decision of staying somewhat healthy with the muck or risking my playing life with a call. Obviously, applying logic here which is what I was attempting to do doesn't always get you the correct analysis on a hand as Danny said. What do you guys think?

[SabaAba 0]

Good post, my thoughts:1)Your really only big mistake was showing your 77. NEVER NEVER NEVER show your cards when you lay them down. You are basically saying to everyone at the table, I can be bet out of a hand. The only time you should ever show cards, IMO, is when you have a good hand and you want to show people you are playing good hands, but even then, don't show too often.2) There is a nice play in poker that if the board pairs, the person who bets wins the hand, when you bet and he reraised, IMO, he was telling you he had a J. However, there was already 310 in the pot. By betting 100, you are just giving away chips, or IMO telling your oponent hey I missed the flop but I would like to pick up the pot. His reraise was a great play and folding was the right play. If you had bet say 200-300 after the flop, he would have folded because an all in raise would most likely have you pot comitted. it would have been say you bet 300 (only 210 more to call for an 1120 pot). So basically, I think the way you played is fine and he just made a nice play, but don't give him information by showing your cards. What you sould have done is said, "OK you got me, I only have 7 high" and then show him one of your sevens :-)Anyway, nice laydown, you still had lots of chips to play with after that, so don't worry.

[MDXS 0]

I think your bet on the flop of 100 into a pot of 310 is too small. Perhaps he thought you were weak and an all-in would steal it.

[Big-Ern777 0]

Yeah now that I think about it a large flop bet of 300 may have been a much wiser decision. Yes, it would probably spell out the fact that I don't have the set, (though some players have played sets very aggressively on the flop, even heads-up) but as you said I guess a bet of 200 or 300 would have been much more appropriate. I really don't know why I didn't think of that earlier, but thanks. And can anyone else believe the guy calling nearly all his chips on AQ-off on a flop of 2 K 2 against my all-in - K6? I swear he must have sucked out catching aces on the turn or river nearly 5 or 6 times on all-ins. Ironically, he ended up placing 3rd and checked a straight which he didn't realize he had down to the river with just 2 other players left at the final table! He was nick-named "The calling station" for obvious reasons.

[BilliardsBoy 0]

Speaking of calling stations, anyone see Celebrity poker championship this week? Colin Quinn was the definition of calling station. Phil was just baffled (meh spelling) to see a guy call so many hands and hit on rivers and flops to win monster pots. I was happy he lost just for the sanctity of poker.

[SabaAba 0]

Hey Ern,By the way, a set is when you have two in your hand, so you mean trip Queens, just FYI.Also, by betting 300 you are telling him, you are not scared of his J (you should never assume someone flops trips, it happens but not that common, especially waht seems to be a four handed game?Which I forgot to ask in the original reply. If this was a 10 handed table, you should probably only limp in with 77 UTG. But from readin your post, it seems like there where only 4 people at the table. And yeah unlucky on the K6 hand. It's not as bad as losing KK to AK though.

[Emptyeye 0]

Speaking of calling stations, anyone see Celebrity poker championship this week? Colin Quinn was the definition of calling station. Phil was just baffled (meh spelling) to see a guy call so many hands and hit on rivers and flops to win monster pots. I was happy he lost just for the sanctity of poker.

I agree completely. I have nothing more to say on that. It's like, "Oh look, he's calling, WHAT THE ****?!...why don't I ever hit monster flops like that when I play utter trash!?"

[Big-Ern777 0]

Hey Ern,By the way, a set is when you have two in your hand, so you mean trip Queens, just FYI.Also, by betting 300 you are telling him, you are not scared of his J (you should never assume someone flops trips, it happens but not that common, especially waht seems to be a four handed game?Which I forgot to ask in the original reply. If this was a 10 handed table, you should probably only limp in with 77 UTG. But from readin your post, it seems like there where only 4 people at the table. And yeah unlucky on the K6 hand. It's not as bad as losing KK to AK though.

My bad, thanks on the terminology. I just grew used to calling three of a kind a set regardless of how you got it. Anyways you're right, the table was 4- handed at that time so pocket 7s is definitely an appropriate raise and whether or not it's correct first to act 10-handed really depends on your style and your stack. I agree though, 10-handed I would probably limp and call a small-medium raise.

[ddoggphx 0]

Speaking of calling stations, anyone see Celebrity poker championship this week? Colin Quinn was the definition of calling station. Phil was just baffled (meh spelling) to see a guy call so many hands and hit on rivers and flops to win monster pots. I was happy he lost just for the sanctity of poker.

Yes, and I want to find a way to get into Colin's home game...

[SabaAba 0]

Yeah I was also going to add that if it was 4 handed, you could have also made a bigger raise preflop. Short handed I don't like seeing flops with med/small pair. I'd rather pick up the blinds. You never have odds to try catch a set and if someone is calling a raise they most likely have two overs.

[KDawgCometh 2]

Ern, I think you should've called. THe tells he was giving you were indicating a lot of weakness. This is a case where trying to get him to talk is the best option. If his voice was shaky then call. Ask him to count out his chips so you can see how he does it. You needed to do more before you mucked to see what his reactions might be

[dms26 3]

As a few people have already said I think your preflop raise and flop bet was too small. You basically doubled the BB preflop, this isn't going to get many people out, 92o shouldn't call it but I think making a raise that is 3-4X BB might take down the pot preflop. Then on the flop you bet 100 into a pot pf 320, that's very weak. It either means your slowplaying a monster or not very confident in your hand. A pot size bet would have showed him you liked that flop and were pot commited if he raised all in. Remember in poker it is much better to be the aggressor than on the defensive. He won the pot by acting strong and you lost it by acting weak. GL next time.

[brisk 0]

showing the hand was not a mistake ... you were able to get useful information about your opponent

[Devilkin 0]

showing the hand was not a mistake ... you were able to get useful information about your opponent

I disagree - you gained some info on one opponent, but every opponent at the table gained information about you. Not a fair tradeoff.Dev

[Big-Ern777 0]

Ern, I think you should've called. THe tells he was giving you were indicating a lot of weakness. This is a case where trying to get him to talk is the best option. If his voice was shaky then call. Ask him to count out his chips so you can see how he does it. You needed to do more before you mucked to see what his reactions might be

I saw him doing the same moves earlier with a hand and I don't believe they're necessarily weakness. Nervousness doesn't necessarily mean bluff or monster, but I do agree on asking him to count out his chips. Let's remember that it's easy to say "oh he was bluffing given that information!" once the hand is told.

[KDawgCometh 2]

Ern, I think you should've called. THe tells he was giving you were indicating a lot of weakness. This is a case where trying to get him to talk is the best option. If his voice was shaky then call. Ask him to count out his chips so you can see how he does it. You needed to do more before you mucked to see what his reactions might be

I saw him doing the same moves earlier with a hand and I don't believe they're necessarily weakness. Nervousness doesn't necessarily mean bluff or monster, but I do agree on asking him to count out his chips. Let's remember that it's easy to say "oh he was bluffing given that information!" once the hand is told.

this is true. I jsut think from the way you descibed the situation(I may have read it wrong) that you might've sensed some real weakness fom him. In thses situations, I like to go into the "tank", by doing this it also gives you more information. If he is being fidgety and wiggling around then he isn't confident in his hand. A amn that likes his hand will wait however long you want to take as he knows he's a lock, just a thought

[Duff_Man 0]

If I'm reading it correctly he had approx. 500 chips left after you made it 140 to go. By betting 300 after his check your basically commiting yourself to the hand seeing as how there would have been over 1000 in the pot by then assuming he went all-in (if I'm reading it right). A small bet like 100 says one of two things either your hoping for a call beause you have the best hand and you want to get as much out of him as possible or your hoping he lays it down. Unfortunatly he guessed right.Duff