Abbaddabba 0 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 And you're in mid-late position with AKoff.Suprisingly, this hasnt come up before for me. What are the limits of the stats (vpip/pfr) that the PFR and RR must have before you'll fold? Link to post Share on other sites
Bobby Bring-in 0 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 I'm not sure exactly where you would put a cutoff. VPIP isn't quite as important as PFR as i play with a gentlemen quite often who has a VPIP of ~30% but his PFR is only 3% and i give his raises respect above all others. I guess what we'd have to figure out is a guideline for pre flop raise percentage and a corresponding number of hands.I believe the gentlemen with the 3% PFR has only raised with AA or KK.In the situation you described i think if both players even showed a PFR% of 7/6 then it might be borderline. That statement however is just a guess and i think we'd need players of varying percentages to post the hands they raise with and then we'd have an excellent idea of the number you seek. Link to post Share on other sites
Abbaddabba 0 Posted March 20, 2006 Author Share Posted March 20, 2006 I guess another issue is, how large of a hand sample do you need to feel confident about something like that.a 30/2/0.25 after 100 hands probably isnt 3betting with less than queens. But an 8/2/2.5 after 50 hands may just be cold decked, and could often be making it 3 with 99+ and AQ+. Link to post Share on other sites
Bobby Bring-in 0 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 I would say you are accurate with a 100+ hand sample. You do raise an interesting point with the cold deck situation however.No matter what their stats say, if they are steaming from a big hit they just took....i don't think i'm laying down AK PF when they could just be going crazy with a much weaker hand than they normally play. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Abba,Take a look at this hand: AKo in the SB facing a capIt is a situation similar to your above hypothetical.- Zach Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 a 30/2/0.25 after 100 hands probably isnt 3betting.........there's no telling what a 30/2/0.25 3 bets with.He's "probably" not 3-betting any handsIn actuallity, he 3 bets 83 off because it's his dogs birthday.seriously.quit trying to put a formula to it.I haven't felt the need to fold AK preflop to two cold yet. Link to post Share on other sites
econ_tim 0 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 And you're in mid-late position with AKoff.Suprisingly, this hasnt come up before for me. What are the limits of the stats (vpip/pfr) that the PFR and RR must have before you'll fold? i'd consider folding if i had a relatively large sample and both had a PFR of around 5%. Link to post Share on other sites
Rasty 0 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 i'd consider folding if i had a relatively large sample and both had a PFR of around 5%.I'm with Actuary.As long as we're all still talking about low stakes poker here, I think folding AK to two with position is pretty extreme without a very, very, very convincing read.Like, as in, it's your grandma who put in the second raise. And she's in the same room as you. And you can see her cards. Link to post Share on other sites
rog 0 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Different stats converge at different rates. I'd trust VPIP with 100 hand samples. but I would expect the PFR to be somewhat less reliable. Link to post Share on other sites
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