Was This An +ev Play Or Not...

[dapokerbum 0]

So this weekend I headed to the casino for some 3/6 action. I feel I played very well and ended up making a few dollars to add to the bankroll. There is one hand though that has been bothering me.On the button I have 10 J unsuited. There are 4 callers and I limp in. SB and BB check. flop comes J 7 8 rainbow. The SB bets BB folds 2 MP call CO folds and I call. Turn is a 2. SB checks MP1 bets MP2 calls I call and SB folds. Now the river comes a 10. MP1 bets MP2 folds and I called.Was that an +ev call? Or am I giving money away over time.Any responses are appreciated.

[mrdannyg 274]

So this weekend I headed to the casino for some 3/6 action. I feel I played very well and ended up making a few dollars to add to the bankroll. There is one hand though that has been bothering me.On the button I have 10 J unsuited. There are 4 callers and I limp in. SB and BB check. flop comes J 7 8 rainbow. The SB bets BB folds 2 MP call CO folds and I call. Turn is a 2. SB checks MP1 bets MP2 calls I call and SB folds. Now the river comes a 10. MP1 bets MP2 folds and I called.Was that an +ev call? Or am I giving money away over time.Any responses are appreciated.

the river call is fine. can't fold there.i recommend raising the flop though.

[Pancake407 0]

I like the way you played the hand.I would consider raising the flop, depends on my feel of the table.

[dapokerbum 0]

okay so the general consesus then is that I should have raised the flop. so should I raise anytime I hit TP with a hand like that. To tell the truth I was scard of any J with a higher kicker and also the straight that may have been there with the flop. Thanks again for the responses.

[Zach6668 513]

okay so the general consesus then is that I should have raised the flop. so should I raise anytime I hit TP with a hand like that. To tell the truth I was scard of any J with a higher kicker and also the straight that may have been there with the flop. Thanks again for the responses.

Depends on your kicker, the table conditions, ie loose, tight, who's left to act behind you, how many people saw the flop, etc... You can't really say raise every time you hit TP.FWIW, I fold preflop a lot of the time with JTo, is anybody with me on that?- Zach

[dapokerbum 0]

Depends on your kicker, the table conditions, ie loose, tight, who's left to act behind you, how many people saw the flop, etc... You can't really say raise every time you hit TP.FWIW, I fold preflop a lot of the time with JTo, is anybody with me on that?- Zach

Yes I fold JTo a lot of the time as well, but not when I can limp in on the button.So if you were on the button after the flop with TP would you raise the flop?

[Bobby Bring-in 0]

We are missing a couple of key points here. 1) it is a B&M 3/6 game, which means that the players are terrible and i definately don't mind playing JTo from the button in this game.2) since it is B&M 3/6, most players are quite passive and a single raise on the flop will usually give you instant control over the hand. At this point, you will have raised with what may likely be the best hand and if it's not...they will check to you on the turn a fair majority of the time and you can decide on your course of action from there.

[mrdannyg 274]

Depends on your kicker, the table conditions, ie loose, tight, who's left to act behind you, how many people saw the flop, etc... You can't really say raise every time you hit TP.FWIW, I fold preflop a lot of the time with JTo, is anybody with me on that?- Zach

not in a multi-way unraised pot on the button.on the button though, you usually raise with TP, since even if you aren't ahead, it improves playability.

[Zach6668 513]

not in a multi-way unraised pot on the button.on the button though, you usually raise with TP, since even if you aren't ahead, it improves playability.

Yeah, I figured. I overlooked our position. I'm really not a fan of the weak unsuited broadways though, JT, QJ, QT, etc.I raise the flop 99% of the time in this situation as well, and then cry in confusion when some lady donks the turn.

[Actuary 3]

raise flop for value.preflop is good.river call is fine. Pot seemed big and we really have no idea where we are.

[dapokerbum 0]

raise flop for value.preflop is good.river call is fine. Pot seemed big and we really have no idea where we are.

Thanks for all the responses. will remember to raise flop next time. Need to play a little more agressive I guess.

Yeah, I figured. I overlooked our position. I'm really not a fan of the weak unsuited broadways though, JT, QJ, QT, etc.I raise the flop 99% of the time in this situation as well, and then cry in confusion when some lady donks the turn.

SO if it would have been JTs would you have raised it PF on the button or still just limped in. I still have trouble raising suited connectors even in good position, but like I said maybe it is time to get more agressive at the table.

[Actuary 3]

easy raise with 4 callers pf if JTs.now, that does not mean you fall in love with your hand.Just that you will often flop a decent draw or top pair, and your chances of winning at showdown are much better than the 20% you are putting in the pot.Plus, folding the blinds out is never bad with all those callers in the pot already.

[dapokerbum 0]

easy raise with 4 callers pf if JTs.now, that does not mean you fall in love with your hand.Just that you will often flop a decent draw or top pair, and your chances of winning at showdown are much better than the 20% you are putting in the pot.Plus, folding the blinds out is never bad with all those callers in the pot already.

Okay just one more question about this...Say you have JTs and there is a raise in front of you would you call the raise or do you now throw the hand away or do you try to 3-bet it?

[Actuary 3]

we have a loaded question...say raiser is first in and 3 others have already called, I would call.say raiser is Ted Tighty McWhitey and only one person has called so far, I foldsay the SB and BB like to 3-bet about 1/2 the time and two limpers are in so far and the CO raises, well, SB/BB will likley pop it now, and we may end up 4-5 handed calling 2 cold back again. I fold.say Larry Loosey Goosey raises from MP3 and it's just the two of use so far., I fold, wishing I had 77 to 3-bet him with.say Larry SuxPlayingPostFLop Smith raises from EP and it's fodled to us and the Blinds are tighties, I could 3-bet, on a good day, and take make it EV post flop. But generally fold HU. By generally, I mean always would be safe.say Larry Loosey Goosey raises from UTG and 6 others call him since he's loose and all, I 3-bet. Well, I think I should....so "generally" look to play muli way pots with JTs and not short handed

[dapokerbum 0]

we have a loaded question...say raiser is first in and 3 others have already called, I would call.say raiser is Ted Tighty McWhitey and only one person has called so far, I foldsay the SB and BB like to 3-bet about 1/2 the time and two limpers are in so far and the CO raises, well, SB/BB will likley pop it now, and we may end up 4-5 handed calling 2 cold back again. I fold.say Larry Loosey Goosey raises from MP3 and it's just the two of use so far., I fold, wishing I had 77 to 3-bet him with.say Larry SuxPlayingPostFLop Smith raises from EP and it's fodled to us and the Blinds are tighties, I could 3-bet, on a good day, and take make it EV post flop. But generally fold HU. By generally, I mean always would be safe.say Larry Loosey Goosey raises from UTG and 6 others call him since he's loose and all, I 3-bet. Well, I think I should....so "generally" look to play muli way pots with JTs and not short handed

Great Advice thanks Actuary!

[Zach6668 513]

SO if it would have been JTs would you have raised it PF on the button or still just limped in. I still have trouble raising suited connectors even in good position, but like I said maybe it is time to get more agressive at the table.

Limp is good. I'm not at the point in my game where I can raise JTs for value preflop. However, if we get 5 or 6 others in this pot, raising is fantastic (theoretically, whether I actually do it or not is a different story).

[rog 0]

A few comments. 1) You're not raising the flop just because you have top pair. You have top pair, 2 outs to trips, 3 to 2-pair (although they're likely no good, but you get boat redraws), and 4 outs to a straight. You have a TON of equity to raise this flop.2) JTo on the button is an EASY limp with that many callers.3) JTs...I still limp. It's still a drawing hand, and even though it has higher equity, you still want to play it multi-way. Encourage the blinds to stay, and see a flop before committing too much to the pot.4) Actuary's comments regarding JTo facing a raise are spot on HOWEVER, you dont lose much equity folding it to 2-cold in all cases. In most cases, it's the right thing to do. You likely lose more mis-playing it after the flop than you'll gain be playing it if your post-flop skills aren't top notch, and your reads very good. I would recomend folding it unless you have a VERY strong reason to stay in.

[Fat Tye 0]

In a multi-way pot on the button with J10o I like this call (of course I'm semi-loose). On the flop we have top pair on the button facing one bet & only 1 call - I like a raise here for a couple reasons. First of all, we could actually be ahead here. However more importantly I want to try to take control of the hand and see where we are at. I like to use a flop raise when the bets are small to get a free turn or free river showdown with a mediocre hand. In this case if not re-raised on the flop & checked to on the turn I would bet again if no scare card comes. With a scare card you may still be able to get a free river from your flop raise. On the river I would normally take a free showdown with TP/WK or in this case 2 pair with a scary board I will again just take a free showdown & hope to be good.