$50 to $1000 on pstars day 25

[Smasharoo 0]

You'de raise TT, and overcards are coming 60% of the time....you have 99 in the CO, a chance to get someone head up, buy the button, and get hella fold equity...not to mention your hand is the best at the moment.Raise.Whatever, we disagree.Play it that way if you think it's better.I like money, I'll limp with it.

[wrto4556 0]

I like money, I'll limp with it.

If you liked money, you'd raise.

[Smasharoo 0]

If you liked money, you'd raise.Ok.Let me know when you're beating 3/6 for 2.5BB/100 and we'll talk about who likes money more.

[wrto4556 0]

If you liked money, you'd raise.Ok.Let me know when you're beating 3/6 for 2.5BB/100 and we'll talk about who likes money more.

That's not fair...I don't have the money yet.This is an obvious raise, smash. 1. You want the button,2. You want the blinds out,3. It increases your pot equity when you have an advantage,4. It can put you in the driving seat for the hand, enabling you to pick the pot up on the flop with one bet.Give me 4 good reasons why not to raise...PS. I win this round.

[Smasharoo 0]

1. You can gt three-bet by a hand that obliterates you.2. You'll almost always end up 3 or 4 handed and have a flop with overcards.3. You'll have no visability when overcards come on the flop or the turn or the river, because you'll betting into people who called two cold, which is essentially all bad. You don't know if they're terrible can called with A7 or if they're good and called with KQs. If you limp and someone raises behind you, you have much better information to play the hand with.4. When you do end up heads up, which will be the minority of the time, you'll still have overcards and will win a tiny pot when you opponent folds and lose a big pot when they hit the flop and just call the whole the way. This is why AK is a better hand to raise here than 99. 5. When you do get it heads up by raising and flop a set, you loose value.Let me know when you want me to stop or give you the page number where Sklansky says the exact same thing.

[JaysonWeber 0]

Aggression pays off... With 1 overcard I'm betting this on the flop certainly, if they call, I'll bet on the turn as well.Me and WRTO have gone over a lot of hands, the turn is where hands are won and lost... I got to bet the turn here with the pocket 9's.The 4 reasons to bet it are also the 4 reason's I'll bet it.Aggression is better than Passiveness...That's why Rocks win.. And TA-A's win MORE.

[Smasharoo 0]

PS. I win this round.Actually, you just look pretty confused about when to apply agression. While it's better to err onthe side of being too agressive, that doesn't make it the right play when you're too agressive.

[wrto4556 0]

PS. I win this round.Actually, you just look pretty confused about when to apply agression. While it's better to err onthe side of being too agressive, that doesn't make it the right play when you're too agressive.

This isn't a spot where i'm being too aggressive. This is a clear cut raise.Where are my four reasons?EDIT: I didnt see it.

[Smasharoo 0]

That's why Rocks win.. And TA-A's win MORE.And LAGs win less.Most players go through the following stages.Loose passive, where they play nearly anything and call but rarely raise.Tight passive, where they play many fewer hands, but still rarely raise.Loose agresive where they play more hands and raise more frequently when they should'tTight agressive where they play fewer hands but play them too agressively/Tight agressive where they play few hands and play selectively agressively.You and WRTO are onthe fourth stage.

[wrto4556 0]

1. You can gt three-bet by a hand that obliterates you.

Highly unlikely. There are only 3 left to act behind you.

2. You'll almost always end up 3 or 4 handed and have a flop with overcards.

Only valued point, but you can't be scared of overcards...that's weak/tight.

3. You'll have no visability when overcards come on the flop or the turn or the river, because you'll betting into people who called two cold, which is essentially all bad. You don't know if they're terrible can called with A7 or if they're good and called with KQs. If you limp and someone raises behind you, you have much better information to play the hand with.

You want A7 to call your raise. That's money in the bank. And if they chase their 6 outs, god help us, that's money in the bank!

4. When you do end up heads up, which will be the minority of the time, you'll still have overcards and will win a tiny pot when you opponent folds and lose a big pot when they hit the flop and just call the whole the way. This is why AK is a better hand to raise here than 99.

You don't know if an opponent is going to fold his KT when he misses or not.And those small pots add up...that's why your raise pre-flop, here. You are going to be able to take the pot down often enough to make raising profitable...build it up and take it down.

5. When you do get it heads up by raising and flop a set, you loose value.

99 has set and pair value. You're not going to get much set value with only 3 people left to act behind you.

Let me know when you want me to stop or give you the page number where Sklansky says the exact same thing.

Please do.

[wrto4556 0]

That's why Rocks win.. And TA-A's win MORE.And LAGs win less.Most players go through the following stages.Loose passive, where they play nearly anything and call but rarely raise.Tight passive, where they play many fewer hands, but still rarely raise.Loose agresive where they play more hands and raise more frequently when they should'tTight agressive where they play fewer hands but play them too agressively/Tight agressive where they play few hands and play selectively agressively.You and WRTO are onthe fourth stage.

That may be so, but this is a clear raise.

[Smasharoo 0]

Let me ask you something.Would you raise 88 here?

[Smasharoo 0]

That may be so, but this is a clear raise.Sure, it's a clear raise if you ignore every arguemtn against it.72's a clear raise if your fold equity is high enough.Again, whatever. Play it that way over 1,000,000 hands and let me know how you do with 99.Then we'll compare.

[wrto4556 0]

Let me ask you something.Would you raise 88 here?

It's not so clear cut. In loose games, yes. In tighter games, no.

[Smasharoo 0]

It's not so clear cutReally?Why? Which of your reasons for raising 99 don't apply to 88?

[wrto4556 0]

That may be so, but this is a clear raise.Sure, it's a clear raise if you ignore every arguemtn against it.72's a clear raise if your fold equity is high enough.Again, whatever. Play it that way over 1,000,000 hands and let me know how you do with 99.Then we'll compare.

You own SSHE, right?Look on page 66.Then look on page 80 and 82.

[Smasharoo 0]

Where he says you may want to raise if exactly one person is in before you?I see it.If was an easy clear raise he wouldn't be qualifying it. The reason he is qualifying it is that there have to be specefic game conditions for it to make sense. It's a much better raise on the button than in the CO.Do you raise 99 from UTG?

[wrto4556 0]

Where he says you may want to raise if exactly one person is in before you?I see it.If was an easy clear raise he wouldn't be qualifying it. The reason he is qualifying it is that there have to be specefic game conditions for it to make sense. It's a much better raise on the button than in the CO.Do you raise 99 from UTG?

We are talking about raising 99 from late position, not UTG.CO is late postition.

[Smasharoo 0]

We are talking about raising 99 from late position, not UTG.CO is late postition.Page 82 says to raise it UTG.You're the one who wanted to use it as a source for your argument.The source for your argument says to raise it UTG, and is unclear on raising it in this particular situation because raising is such a marginal play here.I'm not sure how it could be any clearer for you....

[wrto4556 0]

We are talking about raising 99 from late position, not UTG.CO is late postition.Page 82 says to raise it UTG.You're the one who wanted to use it as a source for your argument.The source for your argument says to raise it UTG, and is unclear on raising it in this particular situation because raising is such a marginal play here.I'm not sure how it could be any clearer for you....

That's in loose games. In tight games it advocates calling.But, for 99 in late position, it advocates raising no matter what game conditions.Now that's clear.It's 4:00amI don't need for you to admit you're wrong.

[Smasharoo 0]

But, for 99 in late position, it advocates raising no matter what game conditions.It does?Where's that?I don't need for you to admit that you go over all of my posts looking for any mistake you can find and then pressing me on ad infinitum out of some sort of inferiority complex.Not that I expect you ever would.

[AC BillP 0]

Interesting debate. I agree with smash-- for the micro and lower limits. In fact I've seen semi-pros(you can't live playing $3-$6) actually lay down 99 for a raise if they weren't getting correct pot odds in small limits. Moving up to $10 or $15-30, the 99 is almost always a raising hand. You have to remember that you are setting up the key BIG POT situation against the straight&flush draws, and overcards, where you hit a hidden set AND they hit-- and you get 3 big bets in just on the turn. In a sense you are representing an AK here to them and get paid aginst 2 pair and draws. At $30-$60 and up, it's 50-50 what you do. The players are very tricky so you have to vary the way 99 is played, and be rather fearless.Why are You posting every hand!! A couple of interesting ones would be fine IMHO--Good luck on the $1000!

[JaysonWeber 0]

Scrummaging through SSHE is a bit too much for me... Its within reach but I just don't feel like doing it..With the information given... I'm raising here... and the fact that WRTO and I are on the 4th stage.... well thats a winning stage, and you have to go through it to get to the 5th stage. I for one feel I am not aggresive enough in some instances, and in others perhaps I am not aggresive ENOUGH.In this posotion there are many times when I will check it, but CO position with 1 overcard in this pot, I'm betting here.

[JTPHS 0]

1. People don't fold in blinds for a raise.. rarely even in the small blind! Most of the time, you're 4 way with a vulnerable hand.2. I try to stay out of tough decision situations. yuo're probably in one if there's overcards on the board and you have a pocket pair.3. I'd rather have more people in the pot if i hit a set, which is usually what you're trying to do with 99.4. you're not going to win very often with 99 in a 3 or 4 way pot.5. There's not really such thing as fold equity at .25/.50... they always think you're bluffing... and remember.. they watch poker on tv... so they know how to outplay youedit: sorry... i didn't see the posts after the question of "give four reasons".. don't know why i missed it...

[AC BillP 0]

What's all these stages? At lower limits you are really discussing a math question. And no, it's marginal to raise against 4 random idiots IMHO, because you are really trying to trap w/ a set at these limits. You are too at mid limits, but you are also knocking better players of hands--hense the raise has more value. And your forgetting the final stage--when you get crushed by 5 and 2 outers fot 7 weeks straight and are stuck 300 big bets!!! If you Still get the extra bet in those situations-- Well then you're a PLAYER (last stage)