what kind of hand do you need to stand up to maniac?

[Jerry_Lundegaard 0]

This was in the 40k $2o tourney on PP.Villian is complete maniac, in almost every pot, making big bets and re-raises with both good cards and with squat. He got lots of chips after sucking out when one of his bluff re-raises was called. Its very early, I think my stack was right about average. My image was pretty tight. Im sure the villian thought he could push me around. Blinds(20/40)Seat 4: Villan ( $6599 )Seat 5: Hero ( $3367 )HERO 9:heart: 9:club:Villian bets $450Hero: Raise to $900Everybody folds, back to villain. He goes all in. I'm out if I lose. Now against most players I fold for sure, to early to take such a risk. But I think this guy might make this play with ANY two cardsSo, call or fold?

[copernicus 0]

99 is probably a bit on the weak side.Unless its a rebuy, even a maniacs push should be AK, AQ or a decent or better pair. You want to have some kind of edge in calling, so you want to be dominating at least half as many hands as you are on a coin flip with plus eliminate a hand or two that dominate you. Your on a coin flip with 32 hands, so you want to be ahead of at least 18, preferably 24 hands, ie 3 or 4 pairs. If you put his minimum at 6s then 9s are your absolute minimum, Ts preferred. If you move him up to 7s you want to be on Ts or Js. I would probably go with 10s. Hands you can hammer him with are rare enough that getting a little aggressive when you hit a borderline one is probably worth it.

[Jerry_Lundegaard 0]

99 is probably a bit on the weak side.Unless its a rebuy, even a maniacs push should be AK, AQ or a decent or better pair. You want to have some kind of edge in calling, so you want to be dominating at least half as many hands as you are on a coin flip with plus eliminate a hand or two that dominate you. Your on a coin flip with 32 hands, so you want to be ahead of at least 18, preferably 24 hands, ie 3 or 4 pairs. If you put his minimum at 6s then 9s are your absolute minimum, Ts preferred. If you move him up to 7s you want to be on Ts or Js. I would probably go with 10s. Hands you can hammer him with are rare enough that getting a little aggressive when you hit a borderline one is probably worth it.

You would think that but I saw him make this same move with A7 off, get called by AK and suck out to win.He would re-raise almost any time somebody put money into the pot. Anyway I folded here because I figured a better situation would come around. I realized the way to trap this guy was to throw out a big bet, because he would always re-raise. I ended up busting him, tried to bluff me two more times and got picked off.Then I lost all my chips when somebody else hit a three-outer on me. Oh well.

[DougieG 0]

I understand youre thought that it's "too early to take such a risk," and while i will admit 99 is a bit weak, I like to employ similar tactics to your "maniac". I'm not saying I would make the same moves as he is with A 7 and such, but I like to reraise a lot of pots from later position and such. Sounds like maniac truly is a maniac, but sometimes these guys are the ones to watch out for. Anyway, regarding the "too early for such a risk" isnt really a good way to win tourneys like this. 99 is weak, but if you pick up TT, JJ, sometimes it's best to gamble a little. If you're a good enough player the extra chips will enable you to pick up more chips and hopefully make a run at really making some money. I don't know what I'd do with 99, probly call his all in, but that's just me, and I do bust out early on a lot of bonehead moves occasionally...so take my thoughts for what they're worth

[nell789 0]

I just scanned over the posts other than the OP but...Personally, I really hate the raise to $900. It sends the message that you can still get away from the hand. I don't think "standing up to a maniac" includes calling off all your chips with a mid pocket pair, If you're going to "stand up" to him, you want to move him off his hand by either going all in, or close to it. By betting such a small amount, it's almost garaunteed that he'll re-raise you, cause he's a "maniac". He isn't scared to try to push you around, especially with his stack. I think if you're going to raise at all, it's got to be all in, or if that looks to weak, then maybe to 1500-2000, so he knows your comitted.

[timwakefield 68]

CALL!!!!!!!! If he is really trying to run over the table and build a huge stack then I think you are favored. His range is 76 suited or better...including any pair, any king, any ace. It's also possible he has overcards, but the chance he has an overpair is very small. I think you are a definite favorite to win the hand...and that you should try to double up early when presented with a good opportunity. I think it is MORE likely he has an underpair than an overpair based on how you describe him (since there are more unders than overs and he likely plays any pair identically). Seriously, people are maniacs.

[lvpro 0]

Personally, my range here would probably be 10s or better, AK, AQ, and AJ suited.

[Rocketwadster 0]

Your raise sucked.Look at decisions, not results. 8)

[SexyStudThang 0]

I dunno Im trying to figure out why you raised to 450 at 20/40 blinds???? That doesnt make any sense at all, and if you were willing to raise that large, you need to stick your money in with pairs like this because the only way you're going to go deep in a tournament is getting in a lot of coinflips for your stack and getting lucky. Once you play for a year or so, you'll start to break out of your shell of making huge raises, and will be able to fold hands like this and pick better spots: for now just keep shoving and keep trying to take the play out of the game.

[Rocketwadster 0]

I dunno Im trying to figure out why you raised to 450 at 20/40 blinds???? That doesnt make any sense at all, and if you were willing to raise that large, you need to stick your money in with pairs like this because the only way you're going to go deep in a tournament is getting in a lot of coinflips for your stack and getting lucky.  Once you play for a year or so, you'll start to break out of your shell of making huge raises, and will be able to fold hands like this and pick better spots: for now just keep shoving and keep trying to take the play out of the game.

Villain raised to 450, THEN we re-raised another 450. 8)

[SexyStudThang 0]

I dunno Im trying to figure out why you raised to 450 at 20/40 blinds???? That doesnt make any sense at all, and if you were willing to raise that large, you need to stick your money in with pairs like this because the only way you're going to go deep in a tournament is getting in a lot of coinflips for your stack and getting lucky.  Once you play for a year or so, you'll start to break out of your shell of making huge raises, and will be able to fold hands like this and pick better spots: for now just keep shoving and keep trying to take the play out of the game.

Villain raised to 450, THEN we re-raised another 450. 8)

Aw sonava....that raise is even worse!!!!!!!! My mind wouldnt let me see the stupid little raise with 99...I blocked it out! I think my parents beat me with a big paddle that said miniraise on it when I was little, and that's why I hate it so much (I KNOW it's like 20 MORE than a miniraise but WHATEVER!)

[SexyStudThang 0]

I dunno Im trying to figure out why you raised to 450 at 20/40 blinds???? That doesnt make any sense at all, and if you were willing to raise that large, you need to stick your money in with pairs like this because the only way you're going to go deep in a tournament is getting in a lot of coinflips for your stack and getting lucky.  Once you play for a year or so, you'll start to break out of your shell of making huge raises, and will be able to fold hands like this and pick better spots: for now just keep shoving and keep trying to take the play out of the game.

OK Disregard that. Since int's reversed, I woud just flat fold the 99 to such a huge raise unless it's a rebuy, in which case I'd be in there with like....25 SOOTED too. If you're gonna make the friggin raise, make it a little more, and make the decision before you raise that you're going to continue the hand, not after the maniac hits his allin reflex with ATo.

[Jerry_Lundegaard 0]

Your raise sucked.Look at decisions, not results. 8)

Interesting replies here, thanks..I really dont see how this raise sucked THAT bad... As was pointed out the 450 was a large raise for these blinds but understand that he was raising like that all the time. Also If I raise much more, say to 1500, Im getting to the point where its approaching half my stack, so then Im really stuck in the hand. So what would you have done facing that bet, just fold? Push? Raise to 1500 or more? Anyway since it sucked so bad tell me what I should have done.

[copernicus 0]

Your raise sucked.Look at decisions, not results. 8)

Interesting replies here, thanks..I really dont see how this raise sucked THAT bad... As was pointed out the 450 was a large raise for these blinds but understand that he was raising like that all the time. Also If I raise much more, say to 1500, Im getting to the point where its approaching half my stack, so then Im really stuck in the hand. So what would you have done facing that bet, just fold? Push? Raise to 1500 or more? Anyway since it sucked so bad tell me what I should have done.

Your reraise didnt suck. I think its the right size to test a maniac with a hand that too good to lay down.

[Rocketwadster 0]

Your raise sucked.Look at decisions, not results. 8)

Interesting replies here, thanks..I really dont see how this raise sucked THAT bad... As was pointed out the 450 was a large raise for these blinds but understand that he was raising like that all the time. Also If I raise much more, say to 1500, Im getting to the point where its approaching half my stack, so then Im really stuck in the hand. So what would you have done facing that bet, just fold? Push? Raise to 1500 or more? Anyway since it sucked so bad tell me what I should have done.

Your reraise didnt suck. I think its the right size to test a maniac with a hand that too good to lay down.

I proclaim that the raise sucked for the following reason:You indicated you didnt know what to do when he went all-in. You have to have a general idea of what you are going to do when certain things happen after your raise (meaning what are you going to do if someone else pushes after you, or if the maniac pushes etc.) You min-raised him, which from what I can gather from your post, in your opinion didn't pot commit you to the hand. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, if you knew what you were going to do before you min-raised shoudl something happen after that.Had you raised more, you would most likely be pot-committed, and you wouldn't have any trouble with knowing what to do. Had you not raised at all, you could have blah blah blah.Your raise put you to a tough decision (in your mind). That is why it sucked.Look at decisions, not results. 8)