raise call river????

[rwood 0]

10 handed 3/6, Hero in CO with AsAcMP2 limps, folded to Hero, Hero raises, folds back to MP2 he calls. KsJh7cMP2 checks, Hero bets, MP2 raises, Hero 3 bets, MP2 caps 3dMP2 bets, Hero call7d MP2 bets, Hero Raises, MP2 calls

[princeof56k 0]

Take the results off please.And did you cap the the flop or 3 bet it?

[AlphaOmega 0]

This is like a carbon copy of the hand I posted earlier in the week when I had pocket kings.I raised on the end when the board counterfeited my opponents two-pair (or so I thought)The reason we came to the conclussion that that was a good play was because we knew the other player was a TAP, and we could narrow down his hand range significantly.I don't really mind making a play like this because the river allows you to beat a ton of hands that your opponents could bet with, but I'd be less inclined to raise the river without a specific read.

[screech 0]

Any reads?What can he be limping with from MP2? His play doesn't really make sense. He played the flop aggressively, but limped from MP2. Weird.I usually raise this. I would call against certain opponents.

[hman888 0]

I am trying to piece together what he could be holding that justified:1.) Limping instead of raising2.) Capping it on the flop3.) Slowing down on the river after betting into you on the turnAK would explain the flop play and the simple river call (afraid of two pair), but most people would raise with AK in MP.A small PP would not explain the slowdown on the river, as he would have made a full house. That makes sense throughout the flop and turn play, but not the riverThis leaves us with KJ, and Alpha is right, that this is similar to the counterfeiting example he posted earlier. You are balsy to make this raise, IMHO, since he is representing a set or two-pair all the way through the turn. If he has K7 or a set, you are going to get re-raised, and will be in a tough spot. In fact, you only know that you are facing two pair when he simply calls your raise on the river, right?

[AceJackOffS 0]

this hand smells a lot like KJ but beware of a tricky player having JJ here not very likely but possible. I like the raise on the river

[Joenin 0]

I'm not sure what your question is here, but I have some general thoughts on the hand. On flop in a 10 handed game you really hurting yourselign 3 betting there unless you have a good read on your opponent. Your in position, call and reraise the turn. However, once he caps the flop, you should be concerned, JJ and KK are unlikelly, but could happen. The main hands your concerned with are 77 and KJ both are hands that would be commonly played the way he did. You should be commited to showing this hand down against average opponents, I assume you were. The turn is junk and you can call through it, raising after the cap is not smart as you potetionally alienate hands that will pay you and get reraised by those that hurt you. on the river the 7d is a great card. of the hands to beat you, you've made 77 very unprobable, and counterfitted KJ. At this point your worried about quads, kk and jj. If he has any of the 3 you can raise and pay off the 3rd bet knowing the majority of the time, your raise here showed a profit.

[Guest Zach6668]

I'm not sure what your question is here, but I have some general thoughts on the hand. On flop in a 10 handed game you really hurting yourselign 3 betting there unless you have a good read on your opponent. Your in position, call and reraise the turn. However, once he caps the flop, you should be concerned, JJ and KK are unlikelly, but could happen. The main hands your concerned with are 77 and KJ both are hands that would be commonly played the way he did. You should be commited to showing this hand down against average opponents, I assume you were. The turn is junk and you can call through it, raising after the cap is not smart as you potetionally alienate hands that will pay you and get reraised by those that hurt you. on the river the 7d is a great card. of the hands to beat you, you've made 77 very unprobable, and counterfitted KJ. At this point your worried about quads, kk and jj. If he has any of the 3 you can raise and pay off the 3rd bet knowing the majority of the time, your raise here showed a profit.

I don't like this. I'm 3-betting the flop like it's my job here. I want him to define his hand for me while I can get it for a couple SB.Getting 3-bet on the turn here would be disasterous if we are behind, which we will be if he 3-bets the turn, and we could be drawing to 2 outs.Like you said, you want to show this down, don't make it expensive for when we are behind, and don't make him fold a hand like Jx or Kx (rarely), that we are way ahead of by scaring him off on the turn.3-bet/call flop cap, call turn, call river.The river raise in this situation is highly dependant on reads, but I don't think I can make it. I can't specifically put him on KJ here, and getting 3-bet blows.What do you do if you are 3-bet? I hate it.- Zach

[Joenin 0]

Your paying money for him to define his hand if you play it like that, sometimes your get burned but overall you'd rather get the extra money in on the expensive streets. Additionally it gives you an opratunity to slow down if a ten comes, thought may not choose to depending on opponent. Getting 3 bet on the turn is disasterous, its also very rare. His range of hands here is fairly well defined, and you are in good position verse most of them. Because I said I want to show this down, I do not mean I'm not interested in extracting the highest amount possible from this hand, I just mean theres not sufficient cause to fold it, and I was specifically talking after a flop cap. Being reraised on this flop does not make me think i'm behind, it makes me think he caught some piece, throwing away money to find out if its the minority of the time when hes on KJ or a set is simply not profitable here, and KJ is really one of the less likelly hands for him to have. Most players will call through a turn raise with Kx here hoping to snag a river, and pay off the river even. Not argueing if that optimal play or not but its fact, especially at this level. On the river the only hands your losing to are 77/kk/jj which represent an extremely small percentage of the range of hands you put him as possibly being on, farthmore its fairly unlikelly he'll fold here, so you have a great opratunity to raise for value. I stand by the way I'd prefer to play this hand, thought your insights were interesting.

[Joenin 0]

Your paying money for him to define his hand if you play it like that, sometimes your get burned but overall you'd rather get the extra money in on the expensive streets. Additionally it gives you an opratunity to slow down if a ten comes, thought may not choose to depending on opponent. Getting 3 bet on the turn is disasterous, its also very rare. His range of hands here is fairly well defined, and you are in good position verse most of them. Because I said I want to show this down, I do not mean I'm not interested in extracting the highest amount possible from this hand, I just mean theres not sufficient cause to fold it, and I was specifically talking after a flop cap. Being reraised on this flop does not make me think i'm behind, it makes me think he caught some piece, throwing away money to find out if its the minority of the time when hes on KJ or a set is simply not profitable here, and KJ is really one of the less likelly hands for him to have. Most players will call through a turn raise with Kx here hoping to snag a river, and pay off the river even. Not argueing if that optimal play or not but its fact, especially at this level. On the river the only hands your losing to are 77/kk/jj which represent an extremely small percentage of the range of hands you put him as possibly being on, farthmore its fairly unlikelly he'll fold here, so you have a great opratunity to raise for value. I stand by the way I'd prefer to play this hand, thought your insights were interesting.

[Guest Zach6668]

While we are not crediting our opponents with any amount of reason, you HAVE to add J7, K7, 7x to the list of hands that beat us on the river.If you are saying that is guy will cap it with Kx, then he's seeing a flop with K7 and J7, or A7, etc...- Zach

[Joenin 0]

Well your confusing the way I play this if the flop is called and if I call the CR I think, but maybe not. For rest of this post I'm addressing only how I play assuming the flop got capped in this way, and specifically justifying the river RR. If hes Raising with J7 or K7 here I'll prob pay him off the extra 2 on the river, this is sufficiently unlikelly enough to justify paying it off, in return the profit when hes not. A7 is the most likelly of the hands you mentioned. A7 is an unlikelly hand for him to cap the flop with, extremely unlikelly actually. Going into only the reason of my opponent, which is particularly tricky at 3/6, i'd say 95 percent of the time he has AK, KJ, or 77 on the flop. With your ace being dead, and with the additional 7 coming, it becomes EXTREMELY likelly he has KJ. You will lose this hand a fair amount of the time. Assuming you call here anyways, and will call the reraise if he 3 bets, which I would for a pot this large, your risking 2 bets to win 1 most of the time. You will win this pot > 66 percent of the time imo, to KJ mainly. I stand by my reraise. Occasionally the call of the reraise will give you a larger part, and he'll fold QT here on occasion so those kinda even out.

[Guest Zach6668]

He didn't raise preflop.He could easily have J7 or K7 and cap this flop. Are you sayin you wouldn't cap with two pair if given the opportunity?He limped from MP2, which means he probably sucks, so you never know wtf he could have. He could easily have boated up on that river with J7 or K7.I think what it all comes down to is this:If he's a somewhat reasonable player, he's ONLY capping with hands that we are smoked by, and unless he's a maniac, he's just calling our 3 bet.I'm just saying. If he has two pair on the flop, he's betting the turn, and most likely 3-betting it when we raise. If he's abnormally passive, he's still going to call down, and you lose an extra SB against his two pair, or you gain an extra two pair against his weak K, but you are missing value from the flop if you don't 3-bet it, when we are ahead.Raising the turn sucks, IMO.- ZachPS - Divide your friggen posts into paragraphs of some kind

[Guest Zach6668]

Occasionally the call of the reraise will give you a larger part, and he'll fold QT here on occasion so those kinda even out.

No.Good luck.I wanna be like Smash Seriously though.. He's not folding QT to your raise. That's just nonsense.

You will lose this hand a fair amount of the time.

You will win this pot > 66 percent of the time imo, to KJ mainly.

Which is it?I have to say. The range you are giving him is ludicrous. 3/6 is as big of a joke as 1/2, 2/4, etc. You will still see people like 55/4/.75. Stop saying he has to have KJ. He is equally likely to have K7, J7, etc on the flop. Just because the 7 came on the river, we can't discount the fact that he still capped the flop with AT LEAST two pair, IMO. He could have easily just boated up, so don't use the 7 coming off as an excuse to drastically decrease his range.- Zach

[nritchi3 0]

IMO im thinking the K7 and J7 are very likely holdings. at 3/6 players will limp with this crap all the time. I think he probably thinks he's got the best of it on the flop so he is betting it strong but with you raising preflop and playing the flop very strong he is worried you might have KJ JJ or KK so with you betting the turn he slows down then when he fills up on the river he decided to bet but then KK or JJ comes back into his head when you raise.I know my analysis doesn't make complete sense but for some reason this seems like the most logical explanation.