biggest joke in the nfl??????

[teneight 1]

koop, stop been denial. like I stated earlier, the raiders just need a coach who can put the pieces together. they have a lot of good talen in that team (a lot of young good players)..i can name them if you want. raiders wont be starting Collins next year. he is going to take out a big chunk out of the raiders cap..Andrew Walter is going to start next season...very good Smart young QB. The defense has holes, but they will be addressed in this upcoming draft. the draft is full of good LB's. i'm sure they will land AJ hawk or mario williams in the 1st round (i know that scares you). AJ hawk is just a monster and he is better coming out of the draft compared to Derrick johnson last year.The OL can be good but they need to stick with players to only 1 position. i've watched all the games and they switch up alot of players in positions they aren't comfortable in. Moss, porter, curry, gabriel..what more can you ask for? Turner has never been a good Head coach...he is know to be a good OC. not a HC. Lamant jordan had a good season for his first year as a starter. with a "crappy" oline and team overall...he put up good numbers. just imagine what he could do if the raiders had chemistryin conclusion..the only real big problem the raiders have is Chemistry. they need a coach that will have complete control of the team for several years, but since Al davis is the owner..it wont happen for a few years.

Oh man...you clearly are not very intelligent. Jesus Christ.A. I would love for you to name all the "good young players." Last time I had you do this for me (remember that??) you simply copied and pasted every single player under 30 years old and then just randomly said sh*t about them. You gonna do that again??B. Andrew Walter??? HA..please. You have NO basis for saying he is "a smart, good young QB." Yeah..he was a good QB in the "no defense" Pac-10. So was..everybody else. He probably won't be starting anyway...aren't they trying to get "Mr. Mediocre" Daunte Culpepper??? You guys are a long way from having a good QB. You wish you had someone as good as Trent Green..don't you?? lolC. Rushing for 1025 yards and only 3.8 a carry is a "pretty good first year" as a starter?!??! LOL..wow..I guess Larry Johnson is an instant hall of famer then, because he is a billion times better than Jordan was in his first year starting. Seriously though..he's been the league five years and his career high is 1025 yards for a season...and 3.8 yards a carry and only 9 touchdowns..that just sucks!! But yeah, you're right..if they can just get better "chemistry," I'm sure he'll boost his career high up to..what...1086 yards and 3.9 yards a carry?? LOL...you suck. D. About the defense..yeah, you're right, they were horrible last year in both points allowed and yards allowed per game, but yeah, drafting that one linebacker will make all the difference, it will take them right to the Top 5. NOT!!! OMG..you clearly know nothing....they are a LOT more than just one linebacker away from having a good defense. Trust me..Derrick Johnson was pretty good, but we were still weak in the defensive backfield, and it hurt us. Takes more than just one good draft pick. Also...why the f*ck would the Raiders drafting Mario Williams scare me!??!?!? E. You say that the "OL can be good," yet you have no real reason why. Did they just switch them around all the time just for fun?? Or was it because...THEY COULDN"T DO THE ORIGINAL JOB THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO DO, SO THEY HAD TO TRY SOMETHING ELSE???? Wow....F. SOOOOOO..basically, you don't really have a clue what you are talking about and are just blindly defending your team.

A. nah, i already did thatb. andrew walter has a lot of talent. he dropped down a round last year because his shoulder injury..nothing big. Just wait and see. Trent green has good numbers, but he dosent seem to win big games..EVER! he dosent seem like a good Championship Qbc. he had over 1,500 yards last year...rushing/recieving. he will get better since this was his first year. not that many RB's have a first good year as starters. d. i never said that they will be a top 5 defense. I'm just saying the have alot of young talent, but you just can't see that since you dont follow the raiders. i never stated they will be a good defense with one draft pick. please get you head out of your as$ because you are saying a lot of things that no one has ever mentioned.e. raiders oline will improve with gallery and grove having 1 more year under their belt. They will probably pick up another good OL player this year. f..you got PWNED! you know nothing about the raiders since you dont follow them. look closely and evaluate the talent they have..because it's there. they just need a coach to make them work together.all you can do is state false comments that i never made and try to bash me about it. sorry you are wrong koop.

[KowboyKoop 0]

...they also have Randy mosshe had a bad year last year, but just wait until he plays a full season again

yeah...Moss will clearly have a monster year the next time he plays 16 games. OH!!!! Wait a minute...the last time he played 16 games was....by god..IT WAS LAST YEAR!!!!!! WTF!??!?!!?Here are his numbers:Receptions: 68Receiving yards: 1102Oh....oh...wait a minute..wait a minute. Sorry, those were the numbers from the "no name" wide receiver for the Chiefs..Eddie Kennison. Sorry, Moss actually only had 60 catches...and 1025 yards...ouch. That's gotta hurt. All that in 16 games for Moss.....that's two years in a row now that e hasn't done much...and he just keeps being content to be a non-factor getting overpaid. Congrats on having that on your team.

[KowboyKoop 0]

(that includes Randy Moss...always hurt, always distracted..always doing nothing it seems..never seems to be a factor anymore)

the bolded part is a complete jopke. are you really that stupid? he was hurt last year and had the worst year of his career and you say that he isn't a factor anymore? wow, you must be kidding me. so what you are trying to say is that if a Top player gets hurt and has a bad season, he isn't considered a factor anymore and "he always doing nothing it seems".anyone would love to have moss in their team. He didnt go off this year and he wont go off with the raiders for the rest of his careerLMAO.

Wrong. Moss had a worse year the previous year. Ouch..you know nothing.

[chappy3 0]

Alright, if you want to talk about talent and don't want to look at the roster then i will bring it here for you. Starting on O- Kerry Collins sucks, Andrew Walter needs to work out.RB- Lamont Jordan, first year on the team and +1500 yds. and 11 td'sWR-Moss-his worst yr as a pro, but still +1000 and 8 td's, Porter-if both can be healthy at the same time he is an athletic FREAK, then you got Doug Gabriel, very athleticLine-Starting with Gallery he is solid, Grove-as much as i hate vt, he is solid as well. Sims and Badger aren't that badOk now D:D-line only had the LEAGUE LEADER in sacks Derrick Burgess, Tyler Brayton is a non stop motor guy, if Art Shell gets hired Sapp will have his fat a$$ in shape or get cut by him. Ted Washington still plugs up the middle as well as anyone.LB's-Kirk Morrison, another solid player, AJ Hawk or whoever they draft will defintely be a defensive player...D-Backs-TRADE WOODSON(we can only hope) but they have Nnamdi Asomugha, coming along. Fabian Washington is a speedster that can take it to the house at anytime. And Stuart Schweiget is the next John Lynch.And Shane Lechler is one of the best punters in the league.So i would say they have plenty of talent if they can get a coach to put it together and get the chemistry of a "team". I think Art Shell is the man for the job. Sure they have some holes, but plug a few and they will be competing again. :shock: wow that ended up long

[teneight 1]

...they also have Randy mosshe had a bad year last year, but just wait until he plays a full season again

yeah...Moss will clearly have a monster year the next time he plays 16 games. OH!!!! Wait a minute...the last time he played 16 games was....by god..IT WAS LAST YEAR!!!!!! WTF!??!?!!?Here are his numbers:Receptions: 68Receiving yards: 1102Oh....oh...wait a minute..wait a minute. Sorry, those were the numbers from the "no name" wide receiver for the Chiefs..Eddie Kennison. Sorry, Moss actually only had 60 catches...and 1025 yards...ouch. That's gotta hurt. All that in 16 games for Moss.....that's two years in a row now that e hasn't done much...and he just keeps being content to be a non-factor getting overpaid. Congrats on having that on your team.

wow..have you ever heard of injuries. he played most of the season hurt and he still put up similar numbers to KCs #1 WR..hahahahawhy do you always forget to leave out the most importan info.? moss was injured for atleast 10 of the games and still got decent numbers. just wait until he played a healthy season...he will just be a monster like always .nice try though koop. next time, don't leave all the info out. just like you did with Jordan. he has another 500-600 yards receiving. having 1600 yards your first year as a starting RB is pretty good...with 11 tds to go with itteneight.ps. i bolded the info you left out about jordan and moss. some big things you left out koopnice try though :wink:

[KowboyKoop 0]

Robert Gallery was on a local station here two days ago doing a phone interview. He said he thought the Raiders biggest problem was chemistry. He said there's basically two locker rooms--the young guys who are hungry and want to play because they love the game, and the older guys(See Warren Sapp) who think they can just show up, throw the uniform on and collect a paycheck.He also said that their young guys have all the talent in the world but they were for the most part mismanaged(See moving Gallery to the right side and back to the left side about 13 times during the course of a game).

I don't disagree with any of this, I just don't think this is the sole reason for them not being a playoff team. They could drastically improve next year (they probably won't) and still be worst than Denver, Kansas City, and San Diego..and that is just their own division..much less the entire AFC.

They're one of those teams who can swing real far one way or real far the other. They need to trim a lot of the fat(Warren Sapp, Kerry Collins, Charles Woodson) and bring in a good young coach to light a fire the way that Gruden did. There's a lot of good young players (Gallery, Morrison, the WR who was a QB at UNC whose name I'm forgetting), but there's A LOT of old, dead weight around there--not to mention a real bad attitude problem.

Again..I don't disagree with too much of this at all. I'm not saying they have zero good players, but that's the thing, all the old washed up players (that includes Randy Moss...always hurt, always distracted..always doing nothing it seems..never seems to be a factor anymore) just loaf around. Plus, I wouldn't say they have "alot" of good young players..just some. I mean..you named three..and couldn't even remember one of them. Bottom line, they need a TON of reworking before anything is gonna get better. They could feasibly become a better football team for next year..but there is no chance of them jumping over the Colts, Steelers, Patriots, Broncos, Chargers, Chiefs, Bengals, and even the Dolphins. That's eight teams right there..no playoffs for Oakland...they won't even come close.

Are you f.cking serious? Lost all credibility there, i guess that is your team :roll:

Ha. No, I'm a Chiefs fan. However, the Dolphins won their last six games last year, including wins over San Diego and AT New England. They were WIDELY regarded as a MUCH improved team at the end of last year, and many are picking them to be a serious playoff contender for next year. However, even so, you'll notice that I listed them last and implied by saying "and even" that they would probably barely fit into that group. You CLEARLY know very little about football if you don't think that Miami will be at least a good team next year....they were probably better than 4 playoff teams at the end of last year.

[teneight 1]

...they also have Randy mosshe had a bad year last year, but just wait until he plays a full season again

yeah...Moss will clearly have a monster year the next time he plays 16 games. OH!!!! Wait a minute...the last time he played 16 games was....by god..IT WAS LAST YEAR!!!!!! WTF!??!?!!?Here are his numbers:Receptions: 68Receiving yards: 1102Oh....oh...wait a minute..wait a minute. Sorry, those were the numbers from the "no name" wide receiver for the Chiefs..Eddie Kennison. Sorry, Moss actually only had 60 catches...and 1025 yards...ouch. That's gotta hurt. All that in 16 games for Moss.....that's two years in a row now that e hasn't done much...and he just keeps being content to be a non-factor getting overpaid. Congrats on having that on your team.

[teneight 1]

Alright, if you want to talk about talent and don't want to look at the roster then i will bring it here for you. Starting on O- Kerry Collins sucks, Andrew Walter needs to work out.RB- Lamont Jordan, first year on the team and +1500 yds. and 11 td'sWR-Moss-his worst yr as a pro, but still +1000 and 8 td's, Porter-if both can be healthy at the same time he is an athletic FREAK, then you got Doug Gabriel, very athleticLine-Starting with Gallery he is solid, Grove-as much as i hate vt, he is solid as well. Sims and Badger aren't that badOk now D:D-line only had the LEAGUE LEADER in sacks Derrick Burgess, Tyler Brayton is a non stop motor guy, if Art Shell gets hired Sapp will have his fat a$$ in shape or get cut by him. Ted Washington still plugs up the middle as well as anyone.LB's-Kirk Morrison, another solid player, AJ Hawk or whoever they draft will defintely be a defensive player...D-Backs-TRADE WOODSON(we can only hope) but they have Nnamdi Asomugha, coming along. Fabian Washington is a speedster that can take it to the house at anytime. And Stuart Schweiget is the next John Lynch.And Shane Lechler is one of the best punters in the league.So i would say they have plenty of talent if they can get a coach to put it together and get the chemistry of a "team". I think Art Shell is the man for the job. Sure they have some holes, but plug a few and they will be competing again. :shock: wow that ended up long

:clap: :clap: just to add a few more things...Standford Routt is going to be better than fabian washington. i watched him play a lot last year, and he seemed to be a playmaker...he will be out best CB in a few years, well that is my predictionkoop...what do you have to say about what chappy said? everything he said is correct. Moss has been hurt, and still put up decent numbers.

[teneight 1]

Alright, if you want to talk about talent and don't want to look at the roster then i will bring it here for you. Starting on O- Kerry Collins sucks, Andrew Walter needs to work out.RB- Lamont Jordan, first year on the team and +1500 yds. and 11 td'sWR-Moss-his worst yr as a pro, but still +1000 and 8 td's, Porter-if both can be healthy at the same time he is an athletic FREAK, then you got Doug Gabriel, very athleticLine-Starting with Gallery he is solid, Grove-as much as i hate vt, he is solid as well. Sims and Badger aren't that badOk now D:D-line only had the LEAGUE LEADER in sacks Derrick Burgess, Tyler Brayton is a non stop motor guy, if Art Shell gets hired Sapp will have his fat a$$ in shape or get cut by him. Ted Washington still plugs up the middle as well as anyone.LB's-Kirk Morrison, another solid player, AJ Hawk or whoever they draft will defintely be a defensive player...D-Backs-TRADE WOODSON(we can only hope) but they have Nnamdi Asomugha, coming along. Fabian Washington is a speedster that can take it to the house at anytime. And Stuart Schweiget is the next John Lynch.And Shane Lechler is one of the best punters in the league.So i would say they have plenty of talent if they can get a coach to put it together and get the chemistry of a "team". I think Art Shell is the man for the job. Sure they have some holes, but plug a few and they will be competing again. :shock: wow that ended up long

:clap: :clap: just to add a few more things...Standford Routt is going to be better than fabian washington. i watched him play a lot last year, and he seemed to be a playmaker...he will be out best CB in a few years, well that is my predictionkoop...what do you have to say about what chappy said? everything he said is correct. Moss has been hurt, and still put up decent numbers.

[chappy3 0]

Robert Gallery was on a local station here two days ago doing a phone interview. He said he thought the Raiders biggest problem was chemistry. He said there's basically two locker rooms--the young guys who are hungry and want to play because they love the game, and the older guys(See Warren Sapp) who think they can just show up, throw the uniform on and collect a paycheck.He also said that their young guys have all the talent in the world but they were for the most part mismanaged(See moving Gallery to the right side and back to the left side about 13 times during the course of a game).

I don't disagree with any of this, I just don't think this is the sole reason for them not being a playoff team. They could drastically improve next year (they probably won't) and still be worst than Denver, Kansas City, and San Diego..and that is just their own division..much less the entire AFC.

They're one of those teams who can swing real far one way or real far the other. They need to trim a lot of the fat(Warren Sapp, Kerry Collins, Charles Woodson) and bring in a good young coach to light a fire the way that Gruden did. There's a lot of good young players (Gallery, Morrison, the WR who was a QB at UNC whose name I'm forgetting), but there's A LOT of old, dead weight around there--not to mention a real bad attitude problem.

Again..I don't disagree with too much of this at all. I'm not saying they have zero good players, but that's the thing, all the old washed up players (that includes Randy Moss...always hurt, always distracted..always doing nothing it seems..never seems to be a factor anymore) just loaf around. Plus, I wouldn't say they have "alot" of good young players..just some. I mean..you named three..and couldn't even remember one of them. Bottom line, they need a TON of reworking before anything is gonna get better. They could feasibly become a better football team for next year..but there is no chance of them jumping over the Colts, Steelers, Patriots, Broncos, Chargers, Chiefs, Bengals, and even the Dolphins. That's eight teams right there..no playoffs for Oakland...they won't even come close.

Are you f.cking serious? Lost all credibility there, i guess that is your team :roll:

Ha. No, I'm a Chiefs fan. However, the Dolphins won their last six games last year, including wins over San Diego and AT New England. They were WIDELY regarded as a MUCH improved team at the end of last year, and many are picking them to be a serious playoff contender for next year. However, even so, you'll notice that I listed them last and implied by saying "and even" that they would probably barely fit into that group. You CLEARLY know very little about football if you don't think that Miami will be at least a good team next year....they were probably better than 4 playoff teams at the end of last year.

This explains EVERYTHING :roll: Just like Amarillo Slim said, if its worth argueing about its worth betting on. If not then shut up :wink:

[KowboyKoop 0]

koop, stop been denial. like I stated earlier, the raiders just need a coach who can put the pieces together. they have a lot of good talen in that team (a lot of young good players)..i can name them if you want. raiders wont be starting Collins next year. he is going to take out a big chunk out of the raiders cap..Andrew Walter is going to start next season...very good Smart young QB. The defense has holes, but they will be addressed in this upcoming draft. the draft is full of good LB's. i'm sure they will land AJ hawk or mario williams in the 1st round (i know that scares you). AJ hawk is just a monster and he is better coming out of the draft compared to Derrick johnson last year.The OL can be good but they need to stick with players to only 1 position. i've watched all the games and they switch up alot of players in positions they aren't comfortable in. Moss, porter, curry, gabriel..what more can you ask for? Turner has never been a good Head coach...he is know to be a good OC. not a HC. Lamant jordan had a good season for his first year as a starter. with a "crappy" oline and team overall...he put up good numbers. just imagine what he could do if the raiders had chemistryin conclusion..the only real big problem the raiders have is Chemistry. they need a coach that will have complete control of the team for several years, but since Al davis is the owner..it wont happen for a few years.

Oh man...you clearly are not very intelligent. Jesus Christ.A. I would love for you to name all the "good young players." Last time I had you do this for me (remember that??) you simply copied and pasted every single player under 30 years old and then just randomly said sh*t about them. You gonna do that again??B. Andrew Walter??? HA..please. You have NO basis for saying he is "a smart, good young QB." Yeah..he was a good QB in the "no defense" Pac-10. So was..everybody else. He probably won't be starting anyway...aren't they trying to get "Mr. Mediocre" Daunte Culpepper??? You guys are a long way from having a good QB. You wish you had someone as good as Trent Green..don't you?? lolC. Rushing for 1025 yards and only 3.8 a carry is a "pretty good first year" as a starter?!??! LOL..wow..I guess Larry Johnson is an instant hall of famer then, because he is a billion times better than Jordan was in his first year starting. Seriously though..he's been the league five years and his career high is 1025 yards for a season...and 3.8 yards a carry and only 9 touchdowns..that just sucks!! But yeah, you're right..if they can just get better "chemistry," I'm sure he'll boost his career high up to..what...1086 yards and 3.9 yards a carry?? LOL...you suck. D. About the defense..yeah, you're right, they were horrible last year in both points allowed and yards allowed per game, but yeah, drafting that one linebacker will make all the difference, it will take them right to the Top 5. NOT!!! OMG..you clearly know nothing....they are a LOT more than just one linebacker away from having a good defense. Trust me..Derrick Johnson was pretty good, but we were still weak in the defensive backfield, and it hurt us. Takes more than just one good draft pick. Also...why the f*ck would the Raiders drafting Mario Williams scare me!??!?!? E. You say that the "OL can be good," yet you have no real reason why. Did they just switch them around all the time just for fun?? Or was it because...THEY COULDN"T DO THE ORIGINAL JOB THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO DO, SO THEY HAD TO TRY SOMETHING ELSE???? Wow....F. SOOOOOO..basically, you don't really have a clue what you are talking about and are just blindly defending your team.

A. nah, i already did thatb. andrew walter has a lot of talent. he dropped down a round last year because his shoulder injury..nothing big. Just wait and see. Trent green has good numbers, but he dosent seem to win big games..EVER! he dosent seem like a good Championship QbYeah...and Andrew Walter does?!?! Please...everybody in the world would take Green over Collins and Walter for the next three years. All he does is throw for 4000 yards every year!!c. he had over 1,500 yards last year...rushing/recieving. he will get better since this was his first year. not that many RB's have a first good year as starters. LOL...bullsh*t. There are plenty of RB's who adjust just fine to the NFL. Hell, Cadillac Williams, for one. Larry Johnson. That's two right off the top of my head THIS YEAR. d. i never said that they will be a top 5 defense. I'm just saying the have alot of young talent, but you just can't see that since you dont follow the raiders. i never stated they will be a good defense with one draft pick. please get you head out of your as$ because you are saying a lot of things that no one has ever mentioned.You said they had a "lot of talent" on defense and that a drafted LB will make make it good. I'm saying they don't have much talent on defense, they were awful last year and no reason to think they'll improve.e. raiders oline will improve with gallery and grove having 1 more year under their belt. They will probably pick up another good OL player this year. f..you got PWNED! you know nothing about the raiders since you dont follow them. look closely and evaluate the talent they have..because it's there. they just need a coach to make them work together.all you can do is state false comments that i never made and try to bash me about it. sorry you are wrong koop.

LOL...okay, whatever you say...even though I quoted you and responded to what you said directly. It is clear that you don't know very much about football, you're just randomly defending your team because you want them to be good. Don't worry though, they won't be good for a long time.

[KowboyKoop 0]

Robert Gallery was on a local station here two days ago doing a phone interview. He said he thought the Raiders biggest problem was chemistry. He said there's basically two locker rooms--the young guys who are hungry and want to play because they love the game, and the older guys(See Warren Sapp) who think they can just show up, throw the uniform on and collect a paycheck.He also said that their young guys have all the talent in the world but they were for the most part mismanaged(See moving Gallery to the right side and back to the left side about 13 times during the course of a game).

I don't disagree with any of this, I just don't think this is the sole reason for them not being a playoff team. They could drastically improve next year (they probably won't) and still be worst than Denver, Kansas City, and San Diego..and that is just their own division..much less the entire AFC.

They're one of those teams who can swing real far one way or real far the other. They need to trim a lot of the fat(Warren Sapp, Kerry Collins, Charles Woodson) and bring in a good young coach to light a fire the way that Gruden did. There's a lot of good young players (Gallery, Morrison, the WR who was a QB at UNC whose name I'm forgetting), but there's A LOT of old, dead weight around there--not to mention a real bad attitude problem.

Again..I don't disagree with too much of this at all. I'm not saying they have zero good players, but that's the thing, all the old washed up players (that includes Randy Moss...always hurt, always distracted..always doing nothing it seems..never seems to be a factor anymore) just loaf around. Plus, I wouldn't say they have "alot" of good young players..just some. I mean..you named three..and couldn't even remember one of them. Bottom line, they need a TON of reworking before anything is gonna get better. They could feasibly become a better football team for next year..but there is no chance of them jumping over the Colts, Steelers, Patriots, Broncos, Chargers, Chiefs, Bengals, and even the Dolphins. That's eight teams right there..no playoffs for Oakland...they won't even come close.

Are you f.cking serious? Lost all credibility there, i guess that is your team :roll:

Ha. No, I'm a Chiefs fan. However, the Dolphins won their last six games last year, including wins over San Diego and AT New England. They were WIDELY regarded as a MUCH improved team at the end of last year, and many are picking them to be a serious playoff contender for next year. However, even so, you'll notice that I listed them last and implied by saying "and even" that they would probably barely fit into that group. You CLEARLY know very little about football if you don't think that Miami will be at least a good team next year....they were probably better than 4 playoff teams at the end of last year.

This explains EVERYTHING :roll: Just like Amarillo Slim said, if its worth argueing about its worth betting on. If not then shut up :wink:

Yeah...Amarillo Slim also molested some children. Right??? So..you go molest some children and go to jail, and then if you do that, I'll gamble with you. Until then.....

[76clubs 0]

Koop has a point, the raiders do blow.

[Longshanks 0]

Koop has a point, the raiders do blow.

thast the only thing ive gotten out of this thread, but you gotta admit, both are dedicated and will NEVER admit when wrong

[teneight 1]

LOL...bullsh*t. There are plenty of RB's who adjust just fine to the NFL. Hell, Cadillac Williams, for one. Larry Johnson. That's two right off the top of my head THIS YEAR.

please name a few more. two isnt many. 1600 yards with 11tds is very very good for a first year starter. Raiders have a lot of good talent and a lot of people know about it. please just get your head out of your as$ green throws for 4000 yards each season, but when was the last time he won a playoff game? he was the last time he won a big game??? he dosent get it done..EVER. he has a good season, but he have it at the end...sorryAndrew walter...just wait and see. they have a lot of young talent with a lot of potential...they just need time and a good coach.teneight

[chappy3 0]

Robert Gallery was on a local station here two days ago doing a phone interview. He said he thought the Raiders biggest problem was chemistry. He said there's basically two locker rooms--the young guys who are hungry and want to play because they love the game, and the older guys(See Warren Sapp) who think they can just show up, throw the uniform on and collect a paycheck.He also said that their young guys have all the talent in the world but they were for the most part mismanaged(See moving Gallery to the right side and back to the left side about 13 times during the course of a game).

I don't disagree with any of this, I just don't think this is the sole reason for them not being a playoff team. They could drastically improve next year (they probably won't) and still be worst than Denver, Kansas City, and San Diego..and that is just their own division..much less the entire AFC.

They're one of those teams who can swing real far one way or real far the other. They need to trim a lot of the fat(Warren Sapp, Kerry Collins, Charles Woodson) and bring in a good young coach to light a fire the way that Gruden did. There's a lot of good young players (Gallery, Morrison, the WR who was a QB at UNC whose name I'm forgetting), but there's A LOT of old, dead weight around there--not to mention a real bad attitude problem.

Again..I don't disagree with too much of this at all. I'm not saying they have zero good players, but that's the thing, all the old washed up players (that includes Randy Moss...always hurt, always distracted..always doing nothing it seems..never seems to be a factor anymore) just loaf around. Plus, I wouldn't say they have "alot" of good young players..just some. I mean..you named three..and couldn't even remember one of them. Bottom line, they need a TON of reworking before anything is gonna get better. They could feasibly become a better football team for next year..but there is no chance of them jumping over the Colts, Steelers, Patriots, Broncos, Chargers, Chiefs, Bengals, and even the Dolphins. That's eight teams right there..no playoffs for Oakland...they won't even come close.

Are you f.cking serious? Lost all credibility there, i guess that is your team :roll:

Ha. No, I'm a Chiefs fan. However, the Dolphins won their last six games last year, including wins over San Diego and AT New England. They were WIDELY regarded as a MUCH improved team at the end of last year, and many are picking them to be a serious playoff contender for next year. However, even so, you'll notice that I listed them last and implied by saying "and even" that they would probably barely fit into that group. You CLEARLY know very little about football if you don't think that Miami will be at least a good team next year....they were probably better than 4 playoff teams at the end of last year.

This explains EVERYTHING :roll: Just like Amarillo Slim said, if its worth argueing about its worth betting on. If not then shut up :wink:

Yeah...Amarillo Slim also molested some children. Right??? So..you go molest some children and go to jail, and then if you do that, I'll gamble with you. Until then.....

Chicken Sh.t

[teneight 1]

btw, when was the last time kc went anywhere or did anything? hahaha..sorry. kc wont do anything next year..at best, they will make the playoffs with a wildcard and lose in the 1st round. larry johnson has to carry that team. without their RB's..they are nothing.gonzo already had his 15 min. do they even have WR's? please don't tell me they are good just because they had similar numbers to randy moss, but moss was hurt for like 10 games. that is just pathetic. kc's oline is getting VERY OLD...they really need to do something ASAP because they retire. kc= old team with the clock ticking. sorry koop.

[teneight 1]

chappy..Koop dosen't have the balls to bet in any sport. he talks the talk but can't walk the walk...lolno balls= no gamekoop..how about it..$50 that kc dosent make the playoffs next year?? straight up bet

[KowboyKoop 0]

Alright, if you want to talk about talent and don't want to look at the roster then i will bring it here for you. Starting on O- Kerry Collins sucks, Andrew Walter needs to work out.RB- Lamont Jordan, first year on the team and +1500 yds. and 11 td'sWR-Moss-his worst yr as a pro, but still +1000 and 8 td's, Porter-if both can be healthy at the same time he is an athletic FREAK, then you got Doug Gabriel, very athleticLine-Starting with Gallery he is solid, Grove-as much as i hate vt, he is solid as well. Sims and Badger aren't that badOk now D:D-line only had the LEAGUE LEADER in sacks Derrick Burgess, Tyler Brayton is a non stop motor guy, if Art Shell gets hired Sapp will have his fat a$$ in shape or get cut by him. Ted Washington still plugs up the middle as well as anyone.LB's-Kirk Morrison, another solid player, AJ Hawk or whoever they draft will defintely be a defensive player...D-Backs-TRADE WOODSON(we can only hope) but they have Nnamdi Asomugha, coming along. Fabian Washington is a speedster that can take it to the house at anytime. And Stuart Schweiget is the next John Lynch.And Shane Lechler is one of the best punters in the league.So i would say they have plenty of talent if they can get a coach to put it together and get the chemistry of a "team". I think Art Shell is the man for the job. Sure they have some holes, but plug a few and they will be competing again. :shock: wow that ended up long

:clap: :clap: just to add a few more things...Standford Routt is going to be better than fabian washington. i watched him play a lot last year, and he seemed to be a playmaker...he will be out best CB in a few years, well that is my predictionkoop...what do you have to say about what chappy said? everything he said is correct. Moss has been hurt, and still put up decent numbers.

What is there to respond to. He just named a bunch of players that he says are "solid" for no good reason. You can do that with every single team in football..saying "oh, this player, he's good, trust me" and "oh yeah, this guy will be better than this guy, trust me" and on an on..but bottom line. they were ALL on the team last year and the team sucked..and it sucked before that and it sucked before that. Oh..but now you just say "oh, they are all good young players, trust me, they'll just all magically get way better and we'll be awesome. Trust me." Whatever. Also...I like how you insist that Moss put up "decent numbers" but that Eddie Kennison, who had BETTER numbers than Moss...as a "crappy WR." Man..you know nothing.

[teneight 1]

most put up the same numbers that kennison put up...while Injured...HAHA!$50 that kc wont make the playoffs next season?Raiders have a lot of good young talent...sorry you dont know it just yet. just wait a year or two..you will find out the hard way

. He just named a bunch of players that he says are "solid" for no good reason

you can't read can you koop? he named good players and gave a reason for almost every single one. those players are very good players...you are pathetic..no wonder you live in MOteneight

[KowboyKoop 0]

btw, when was the last time kc went anywhere or did anything? hahaha..sorry. kc wont do anything next year..at best, they will make the playoffs with a wildcard and lose in the 1st round. larry johnson has to carry that team. without their RB's..they are nothing.gonzo already had his 15 min. do they even have WR's? please don't tell me they are good just because they had similar numbers to randy moss, but moss was hurt for like 10 games. that is just pathetic. kc's oline is getting VERY OLD...they really need to do something ASAP because they retire. kc= old team with the clock ticking. sorry koop.

Uh...yeah..they are all retiring...except for the fact that only ONE of them is even CONSIDERING retirement.....yeah, nice try though. KC's future is WAYYYYYYYYYY better than Oakland's. We do have a guy I like to call Larry Johnson..who at the end of next year will be considered the best RB in the league. Good luck trying to stop that sh*t. By the way..I'm taking a break from this thread.....gotta get to 0ther threads. I'll be back though.

[KowboyKoop 0]

most put up the same numbers that kennison put up...while Injured...HAHA!$50 that kc wont make the playoffs next season?Raiders have a lot of good young talent...sorry you dont know it just yet. just wait a year or two..you will find out the hard way

. He just named a bunch of players that he says are "solid" for no good reason

you can't read can you koop? he named good players and gave a reason for almost every single one. those players are very good players...you are pathetic..no wonder you live in MOteneight

I would take that bet with you, but you are the one who always initiates bets and then when you lose, you don't pay up and instead say "oh, I was just joking, LOL!!"

[teneight 1]

kc= old teamseriously, they wont have much in the next year or two. so $50 that kc dosent make the playoffs? it's only $50 ..i whipe my as$ with that every day. ohhh sorry, you live in MO. $50 is probably a month salary for you.teneight

[chappy3 0]

Alright, if you want to talk about talent and don't want to look at the roster then i will bring it here for you. Starting on O- Kerry Collins sucks, Andrew Walter needs to work out.RB- Lamont Jordan, first year on the team and +1500 yds. and 11 td'sWR-Moss-his worst yr as a pro, but still +1000 and 8 td's, Porter-if both can be healthy at the same time he is an athletic FREAK, then you got Doug Gabriel, very athleticLine-Starting with Gallery he is solid, Grove-as much as i hate vt, he is solid as well. Sims and Badger aren't that badOk now D:D-line only had the LEAGUE LEADER in sacks Derrick Burgess, Tyler Brayton is a non stop motor guy, if Art Shell gets hired Sapp will have his fat a$$ in shape or get cut by him. Ted Washington still plugs up the middle as well as anyone.LB's-Kirk Morrison, another solid player, AJ Hawk or whoever they draft will defintely be a defensive player...D-Backs-TRADE WOODSON(we can only hope) but they have Nnamdi Asomugha, coming along. Fabian Washington is a speedster that can take it to the house at anytime. And Stuart Schweiget is the next John Lynch.And Shane Lechler is one of the best punters in the league.So i would say they have plenty of talent if they can get a coach to put it together and get the chemistry of a "team". I think Art Shell is the man for the job. Sure they have some holes, but plug a few and they will be competing again. :shock: wow that ended up long

:clap: :clap: just to add a few more things...Standford Routt is going to be better than fabian washington. i watched him play a lot last year, and he seemed to be a playmaker...he will be out best CB in a few years, well that is my predictionkoop...what do you have to say about what chappy said? everything he said is correct. Moss has been hurt, and still put up decent numbers.

What is there to respond to. He just named a bunch of players that he says are "solid" for no good reason. You can do that with every single team in football..saying "oh, this player, he's good, trust me" and "oh yeah, this guy will be better than this guy, trust me" and on an on..but bottom line. they were ALL on the team last year and the team sucked..and it sucked before that and it sucked before that. Oh..but now you just say "oh, they are all good young players, trust me, they'll just all magically get way better and we'll be awesome. Trust me." Whatever. Also...I like how you insist that Moss put up "decent numbers" but that Eddie Kennison, who had BETTER numbers than Moss...as a "crappy WR." Man..you know nothing.

When was the last time KC made an AFC championship...or a Super Bowl?I know its a petty point, but everyone but the Steelers have sh.t to work on and they do to really. But you can't talk sh. t at this point unless you are a steeler fan. The Raiders have sucked since they went to the Super Bowl, but they have got a lot of young talent with those draft picks. Koop you keep saying that we don't understand football but if you had any idea about football you would know that if you suck for a couple of years those draft picks will add up. Like i said earlier, just look at where the bungels are now, mine and teneight's point exactly. With a coach that can bring some discipline and chemistry they will have it rolling. Right over the Chefs.

[KowboyKoop 0]

Alright, if you want to talk about talent and don't want to look at the roster then i will bring it here for you. Starting on O- Kerry Collins sucks, Andrew Walter needs to work out.RB- Lamont Jordan, first year on the team and +1500 yds. and 11 td'sWR-Moss-his worst yr as a pro, but still +1000 and 8 td's, Porter-if both can be healthy at the same time he is an athletic FREAK, then you got Doug Gabriel, very athleticLine-Starting with Gallery he is solid, Grove-as much as i hate vt, he is solid as well. Sims and Badger aren't that badOk now D:D-line only had the LEAGUE LEADER in sacks Derrick Burgess, Tyler Brayton is a non stop motor guy, if Art Shell gets hired Sapp will have his fat a$$ in shape or get cut by him. Ted Washington still plugs up the middle as well as anyone.LB's-Kirk Morrison, another solid player, AJ Hawk or whoever they draft will defintely be a defensive player...D-Backs-TRADE WOODSON(we can only hope) but they have Nnamdi Asomugha, coming along. Fabian Washington is a speedster that can take it to the house at anytime. And Stuart Schweiget is the next John Lynch.And Shane Lechler is one of the best punters in the league.So i would say they have plenty of talent if they can get a coach to put it together and get the chemistry of a "team". I think Art Shell is the man for the job. Sure they have some holes, but plug a few and they will be competing again. :shock: wow that ended up long

:clap: :clap: just to add a few more things...Standford Routt is going to be better than fabian washington. i watched him play a lot last year, and he seemed to be a playmaker...he will be out best CB in a few years, well that is my predictionkoop...what do you have to say about what chappy said? everything he said is correct. Moss has been hurt, and still put up decent numbers.

What is there to respond to. He just named a bunch of players that he says are "solid" for no good reason. You can do that with every single team in football..saying "oh, this player, he's good, trust me" and "oh yeah, this guy will be better than this guy, trust me" and on an on..but bottom line. they were ALL on the team last year and the team sucked..and it sucked before that and it sucked before that. Oh..but now you just say "oh, they are all good young players, trust me, they'll just all magically get way better and we'll be awesome. Trust me." Whatever. Also...I like how you insist that Moss put up "decent numbers" but that Eddie Kennison, who had BETTER numbers than Moss...as a "crappy WR." Man..you know nothing.

When was the last time KC made an AFC championship...or a Super Bowl?I know its a petty point, but everyone but the Steelers have sh.t to work on and they do to really. But you can't talk sh. t at this point unless you are a steeler fan. The Raiders have sucked since they went to the Super Bowl, but they have got a lot of young talent with those draft picks. Koop you keep saying that we don't understand football but if you had any idea about football you would know that if you suck for a couple of years those draft picks will add up. Like i said earlier, just look at where the bungels are now, mine and teneight's point exactly. With a coach that can bring some discipline and chemistry they will have it rolling. Right over the Chefs.

Ah. I see...changing the subject to the Raiders future to trying to compare team all time histories. I'll take that as an admission that you know I'm right and now you're just looking for something else to talk about. Oh yeah yeah...they have a lot of "good young talent" or whatever..blah blah blah...too bad none of it has done a damn thing. I guess I'll just have to take your "word" for it...even though the exact same thing was said before last year...and the previous year...and the previous year....Also....yeah...okay. The Bengals were bad for HOW MANY YEARS before they became good with all those draft picks?? You're saying that the Raiders will be like them..so I guess you got about eight more years, right??Oh..and when was the last time the Raiders have beaten the Chiefs!?!? Oh yeah..that's right...you have to look a long time back.