i want to check/raise somewhere

[AlphaOmega 0]

2/4 5-max (5-handed)Reads:BB is pretty aggressive, likes to defend his blind, likes to bet a lot post flop.Preflop: Hero is dealt Q 3 in the SB3 folds, Hero completes, BB raises, Hero callsMaybe I should just muck knowing that he's aggro and will probably raise?Flop: (4 SB)2 Q 5 Hero checks, BB bets, Hero callsI'm almost positive that he's going to bet the turn no matter what he has, and I want to get in a c/r as I feel I'm ahead hereTurn: (3 BB)10 Hero checks, BB bets, BB callsRiver: (7 BB)K Hero bets...C/r flop instead? Lead flop?

[109suited 0]

Given your read, I like the way you played the hand. Are you bet folding the river?

[Hold_Em 0]

YUCKmuck it preflop

[AlphaOmega 0]

Given your read, I like the way you played the hand. Are you bet folding the river?

Nah. I'll call if he raise because he's fairly aggro.I agree that it should have been mucked pre-flop.

[pokerplayer24 0]

YUCKmuck it preflop

If you're suggesting limp/folding to a bb steal then thats pretty funny.

[Hold_Em 0]

im suggesting not wasting the dollar.

[PoppinFresh 0]

YUCKmuck it preflop

If you're suggesting limp/folding to a bb steal then thats pretty funny.

He's suggesting mucking it instead of completing since the bb is likely to raise, which I agree with.Nothing wrong with a limp/fold from the sb though.

[pokerplayer24 0]

YUCKmuck it preflop

If you're suggesting limp/folding to a bb steal then thats pretty funny.

He's suggesting mucking it instead of completing since the bb is likely to raise, which I agree with.Nothing wrong with a limp/fold from the sb though.

lol ok.limp/folding = donk move. I mean if someone does that its practically reason to buddy list them.Qx suited from the sb either should be limped if its going to be heads up or raised. It really isnt close.

[AlphaOmega 0]

Nothing wrong with a limp/fold from the sb though.

Yea there is!! You would be getting 3:1 on your call and its good for metagame purposes because if you limp/fold the BB is just going to raise your limp everytime.pokerplayer,If you knew that there was a very good chance the BB was going to raise, would you still limp? I know Q3 has Hi/Lo potential, but it would seem like we'd be c/fing the flop a lot.

[screech 0]

You played it fine.Mucking preflop is silly unless BB is the greatest poker player on earth.I would have c/red the flop because no one ever believes HU flop c/r's, but he may beleive a turn c/r. Also, I want to show this hand down, and getting 3-bet on the turn really puts you in a bad spot.

[pokerplayer24 0]

I'm more likely to raise from the sb with a marginal hand if I think the bb is likely to raise if I limp. I think a lot overall has to do with post flop play. Vs a real solid tag i'm more likely to fold/raise marginal to bad hands from the sb but vs a lag or loose passive player i'm more likely to limp and keep the pot small.I think Q3s though i'm never dumping it preflop.

[jayboogie 0]

Limp Folding is pretty retarded. Q3 suited is a decent hand against the BB, so I'm playing it pretty much every time. Limping is not too terrible if he's a liberal blind defender, just be sure to do it with a big hand too once in a while so you don't become too easy to read. Even still, I'd probably just raise this against most opponents as they're probably going to fold trash like 92 offsuit.Against a maniac, limping is probably the better play since you will be raised most likely and you will pretty much never pick up the blind uncontested.

[fakeusername2 0]

i would play it close to the same way but probably check call the river. unless your read on the bb is that he would call your river bet even if he is facing 2 over cards. otherwise he calls u or raises u with a better hand that yours. if he is super agressive he might even make a bluff at the end and you can gain a bet.

[fakeusername2 0]

i would play it close to the same way but probably check call the river. unless your read on the bb is that he would call your river bet even if he is facing 2 over cards. otherwise he calls u or raises u with a better hand that yours. if he is super agressive he might even make a bluff at the end and you can gain a bet.

[AlphaOmega 0]

i would play it close to the same way but probably check call the river. unless your read on the bb is that he would call your river bet even if he is facing 2 over cards. otherwise he calls u or raises u with a better hand that yours.  if he is super agressive he might even make a bluff at the end and you can gain a bet.

If he called the turn, then he's calling the river 99.9983477% of the time. It's just a general rule. I would just be straight up missing value if I checked the river.

[fakeusername2 0]

hands he calls your turn raise with-j9 kjkxsany spade drawis your read on the player that he will call your turn raise and call river bet with pair of 5s or 2s or poket pair less than 10s?if you can get a value bet from holdings like that more power to you.guess im not used to playing those limits if thats 99% of wats gonna happen.

[fakeusername2 0]

if i chk raised the flop and bb called and then called my turn bet i would be more inclined to bet the river for value. but him calling the turn raise i would give him credit for some kind of draw to at least 2 pair. maybe ak(2 overs) if he missed his 2pair draw like a5 or a2 i doubt he calls the river bet. unless he is a very loose bad player i cant see you getting a call by a worse hand than yours.again this is 2-4 so i dont know what the typical players do here.

[AlphaOmega 0]

hands he calls your turn raise with-j9  kjkxsany spade drawis your read on the player that he will call your turn raise and call river bet with pair of 5s or 2s or poket pair less than 10s?if you can get a value bet from holdings like that more power to you.guess im not used to playing those limits if thats 99% of wats gonna happen.

There are more hands. You are discounting almost all pocket pairs.It's HU so he's not looking to hold the nuts to call down.My percentage is arbitray, but unless someone is an absolute superdonk, they are not going to call a turn check/raise but fold the river, regardless of what card comes off. Among other things, the pot will give him great odds to call with marginal holdings that I beat.

[fakeusername2 0]

i did include all poket pairs less than ten.if he had higher poket pairs he wouldnt have played it like this.you said it was 5 handed not HU.my point is what does he put you on with your turn raise. maybe he can put you on a flush draw with over cards and call your raise with mariginal holdings. seems like he would be the super donk to call you turn raise while expecting a river bet with pairs less than 10s.even if he can go for a two pair draw he is not getting the right price.maybe im giving the bb too much credit and at these limits they call you down more frequently with very marginal holdings. you say only a superdonk would call your turn chk raise and fold to a river bet. perhaps but wat do you put him on when he calls your chk raise. does he give you no respect and call you down with poket 7s, poket 8s pair of 5s, pair of 2s?hands he calls you down to river with that you beat.poket 4s, 6s, 7s, 8s, 9s, pair of 5s, pair of 2s, pair of 10s poket jjsif he is very aggressive he could have been bluffing till the turn and then called your raise when he picked up a draw.hands he calls turn raise with that can beat youj9,kj,ak,kq,qj,q9,q8,q7,q6,k5,k2,k10,ajyou can also make an outside case for him slow playin a variety of hands and will raise your river bet.he can als0 have a hand that he called the turn raise but will not call a river bet i.e. low flush draw and low straight draw(i.e 34)again i am not familiar with limits at 2-4 and they might be calling stations so u might miss a value bet with holdings as bad as poket 6s but seems like theirs more hands that can beat you with the river card that would call or raise your river bet.

[fakeusername2 0]

i would go with my read on the playerif you think he is a calling station then bet the river.if he is a decent player i think its hard for him to call your river bet with too many holdings. maybe he cant let go of poket js or 9s but thats about it i think.of course you image is important too. if you have a image of one who will value bet with very marginal holdings then maybe he calls more frequently. but i think i would give you credit for at least 2nd pair unless you showed a tendency to bluff chkraise out of position on the turn.

[screech 0]

fakeusername,I skimmed through your posts and it seems like you're doing way too much analysis on a simple situation. It's almost impossible to consider all villians possible holdings that owuld call a turn raise, and then weight the EV of c/c versus betting.This is an easy bet on the river by the way. In a blind battle, he will think your FOS and will call with many weak holdings. He will also suspect you will call a bet, so he won't bet as a bluff, he'll bet for value. Since he will call with more hands then he will bet with, we have to bet this being OOP.

[fakeusername2 0]

never having played 2/4 limits i guess your right if there can be such a thing as too much analysis of a hand. i think it comes down to my read on the player and at limits 2/4 i probably wouldnt give too much credit to the player. of course this is based on live games. im sure 2/4 online plays much better. i wouldnt know. 2/4 live i would bet river 99% of the time.

[AlphaOmega 0]

never having played 2/4 limits i guess your right if there can be such a thing as too much analysis of a hand. i think it comes down to my read on the player and at limits 2/4 i probably wouldnt give too much credit to the player. of course this is based on live games. im sure 2/4 online plays much better. i wouldnt know. 2/4 live i would bet river 99% of the time.

That would explain the discrepancy.At these limits, you often have to learn how to close your eyes and hit the bet button because we underestimate how often we are ahead against the inferior competition.Since this is HU though, I would expect this to be a standard value bet all the way up to even the very high limits. I would only put on my brakes if I knew that the BB would only peel with AK or already had me beat, and I think those situations are fairly rare.

[AlphaOmega 0]

you say only a superdonk would call your turn chk raise and fold to a river bet. perhaps but wat do you put him on when he calls your chk raise.

In HU situations, it has been my experience that people just get ticked off and frustrated when they get c/red on the turn. It's probably a mild to severe form of tilt in most players to be stubborn, but they know that it's going to cost eight for a showdown. They aren't just going to pay four and then fold. It'd be like swimming halfway but then getting tired and swimming back to where they came from.I don't know what he had, but I think it's likely that he had a pocket pair, possibly 66-JJ.

[screech 0]

never having played 2/4 limits i guess your right if there can be such a thing as too much analysis of a hand. i think it comes down to my read on the player and at limits 2/4 i probably wouldnt give too much credit to the player. of course this is based on live games. im sure 2/4 online plays much better. i wouldnt know. 2/4 live i would bet river 99% of the time.

Sorry if you mentioned it in an earlier post (they're too long to go through :-) ), but I'm curious as to what limits you play. I still think this is an easy river bet OOP in most limits (definetly up to 15/30). Checking allows him to check behind his marginal hands and bet his good ones for value. If we bet, we don't give him such a luxory.