two folds i made...yay or nay?

[ForKeeps 0]

Playing in a $30-$60 buyin NL game, blinds $50c-$1. On my first buyin of $60, have about that in front of me. Other players in both hands have 50ish stacks. I will post results of the hands after some comments; both played out to the river. Tell me if you muck, raise, call. Still trying to shed remnants of my former mouse self and want to know if these hands were signs that I still have some in me. Hand 1: I'm dealt AJ hearts in the sb. 3rd postion player (very strong) makes it $3 to go. All fold to the button, who calls. I call. BB calls.Flop comes As 3c Js.I lead with $3. BB calls. 3rd position player makes it $9 to go. UTG player cold-calls. I say "fck shyt azz", tank for a minute, then fold my AJ. BB folds. Hand 2:I'm dealt AJ again, offsuit, on the button. 3rd position player (bit of an elephant, not terrible) makes it $2.50 to go. TWO-FIFTY? Anyway, 4 callers between raiser and me. Was considering a big raise to take down the blinds, but I was offsuit, a lot of the players at this game have sheriff-itis, and the $2.50 bet made me worry about a KK/AA slowplay. I just called. BB called.Flop comes 2h Js 3h. BB bets $3. Original raiser in 3rd position makes it $7 to go. Folds around to me, I show the dealer that I'm folding AJ again, and muck my hand, putting him on the big pair or a J with two hearts. BB calls.So you kids out there don't fail Parliamentary Procedure class, the actual spelling is "yea", but I made a pun. Ha.

[ncperrotta069 0]

yay:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[MarionSauce 0]

Really, I don't know why I would fold the first hand, I put him on AK here, set not likely.Second one, you're likely OK on the flop; the problem with AJo is you either win a small pot or lose a big one, because you are ultra behind. It is good you are playing it with caution.

[krup24 0]

First hand was a very bad fold. AQ or AK 9 x out of 10 hereSecond hand I don't mind the fold

[ForKeeps 0]

Results:Hand 1: Position 3 player bet $18 on the turn when a brick came, and button player called pretty quickly. River came another spade, Pos. 3 player checked, button player bet $25 and Pos. 3 player yells "Rebuy!" and calls. Pos. 3 player turns over AJ, but button player has K-2 of spades. Hand 2: BB and 3rd pos. player go all the way to the river, which produces a heart. BB folds Q-J (no overs to the J hit) when 3rd pos. player shows K-J of hearts.IF I had told you that the button player will chase pretty much every flush draw he has, would you still have stuck around on the 1st hand, Krup and Marion? Thanks~

[AlphaOmega 0]

I didn't look at the second hand, but the first hand was an awful fold. You are ahead of so many hands here, folding is just telling us that you are allergic to money or something.

[krup24 0]

IF I had told you that the button player will chase pretty much every flush draw he has, would you still have stuck around on the 1st hand, Krup and Marion? Thanks~

Yes we are ahead of a flush draw here so I'd hand with him obviously provided I didn't know other villian had AJ as well.Second hand I still think was a good fold even though you had the best hand.

[Guest]

The only problem with folding the second hand is: what flop were you hoping to see when you called, AJ again? No reason to call if you are not going to play when J high comes.

[Abbaddabba 0]

The first hand was obviously a ridiculously bad fold.The second hand should have been folded preflop.But given that you did call,The pot is $16 based on preflop action. He lame-wad bet less than 1/5th of the pot from the big blind, and the raise was just as bad. His raise was essentially $4 (7 to you) into a pot of $22. I'd still fold. But it's pretty funny.

[NoSup4U 0]

I lead with $3. BB calls. 3rd position player makes it $9 to go. UTG player cold-calls. I say "fck shyt azz", tank for a minute, then fold my AJ. BB folds.

I'm confused by who the UTG player is. I thought he folded. Do you mean the button?I'm not sure you can get away from this hand. You probably need to reraise at this point, and if one of these guys moves you all in, then you can reevaluate. But unless you feel like there is no way the guy would over commit like that with AK, then you might be stuck calling.Mark

[ForKeeps 0]

I lead with $3. BB calls. 3rd position player makes it $9 to go. UTG player cold-calls. I say "fck shyt azz", tank for a minute, then fold my AJ. BB folds.

I'm confused by who the UTG player is. I thought he folded. Do you mean the button?I'm not sure you can get away from this hand. You probably need to reraise at this point, and if one of these guys moves you all in, then you can reevaluate. But unless you feel like there is no way the guy would over commit like that with AK, then you might be stuck calling.Mark

Yeah, meant button. doh.

[ForKeeps 0]

The first hand was obviously a ridiculously bad fold.The second hand should have been folded preflop.But given that you did call,The pot is $16 based on preflop action. He lame-wad bet less than 1/5th of the pot from the big blind, and the raise was just as bad. His raise was essentially $4 (7 to you) into a pot of $22. I'd still fold. But it's pretty funny.

Mmmmm allow me to disagree with you. In fact, I think that I pretty much have odds to call with whatever from the sb, with that many callers (essentially limpers), and hope I cream the flop. I folded b/c of the suits and the ruh-raise. Yes, i was hoping for a flop like AJ, or broadway, or something of the like. Well said though on the relative size of the bet/raise from the 3rd position player. I probably should've seen more cards.

[Abbaddabba 0]

You have .50 cents in. The raise is to 2.50.You're "commited" for such a trivial amount that the other factors are much more important. You're out of position, and there's a very good chance that you're going to be dominated.On the plus side - given how you played the first hand, it looks like you'll be able to fold if you make a second best hand. Or a winner, for that matter.

[Hammered Burt 0]

"ForKeeps"Hand 1: I'm dealt AJ hearts in the sb. 3rd postion player (very strong) makes it $3 to go. All fold to the button, who calls. I call. BB calls.If my math is correct there is $12 in the pot on the flop:BB = $3Your Call = $3Raiser = $3Button = 3Why on earth are we leading $3 into a $12 pot. We're giving odds for everything to call here. If it's me I probably lead for anywhere b/t $6 and $10. I generally don't like check-raising on a coordinated board, but I feel like that's a ten times better play than betting 1/4th of the pot. Like I said, if it's me I lead for $8 or $9, the flush draw either folds or calls w/ terrible odds, the other AJ likely raises me, and then we can certainly drive out the flush draw and we chop the pot.If you lead at this pot with a real bet you eliminate all of your problems.

[ForKeeps 0]

If my math is correct there is $12 in the pot on the flop:BB = $3Your Call = $3Raiser = $3Button = 3Why on earth are we leading $3 into a $12 pot. We're giving odds for everything to call here. If it's me I probably lead for anywhere b/t $6 and $10. I generally don't like check-raising on a coordinated board' date=' but I feel like that's a ten times better play than betting 1/4th of the pot. Like I said, if it's me I lead for $8 or $9, the flush draw either folds or calls w/ terrible odds, the other AJ likely raises me, and then we can certainly drive out the flush draw and we chop the pot.If you lead at this pot with a real bet you eliminate all of your problems.[/quote']I was trying to get callers initally, as th game is loose and people will call bets with middle pair. You must've missed that this guy with the flush draw was never going away, as I previously stated. Although I didn't know what the button had at the time, a call of $3 from him after a fold by the 3rd pos. player would've been peeerrrfect.Now, if I put the raiser on bottom set (which I did originally), I have 4 outs to win this hand against a set and a flush draw. If I put him on AJ as well (the other possibility I considered), we have 4 outs to improve our split; he's 35% to hit his flush. Should I really stick with a hand that I can at best hope to split, and have 1/3 chance to lose? We'd only be splitting $4.50-$22.50, assuming the guy on the flush draw ever folds. Putting the raiser on AK or AQ no good as he's a great player and raised to get the flush drawers out (so many of them at this game) and wouldn't have bothered putting more money in the pot with one pair, regardless of kicker.

[ForKeeps 0]

Huzzah.

[Hammered Burt 0]

I was trying to get callers initally, as th game is loose and people will call bets with middle pair.

Let's just ignore the :spade:s for a moment.The board is A3JHow happy are you w/ your $3 bet into a $12 pot when the 2 comes on the turn. Now are you happy you gave me the correct odds to call w/ my gutsot? By the way, I have 4 5 and I'm looking to break players who give me odds to call.

[ForKeeps 0]

First, ignore the spades? Buh.2nd, how likely are you to hit your gutshot? Do I consistently want to let players have a pot-odds draw on me? Not so much to both. If you had a 4-5, I'm certainly going to pop the turn for $8-$12, and if you want to donk call with a gutshot, by all means meet me at the casino this weekend.

[Hammered Burt 0]

Do I consistently want to let players have a pot-odds draw on me? Not so much

If you DO NOT want to give players the pot-odds to draw on you, why are you giving them 5:1 on a coordinated board? Seems like a play w/ undue risk, and poor reward.

[ForKeeps 0]

You work for the NY Times? You only cut like half of my post out when quoting me there. How do you figure 5:1 is good?You have worse than 10:1 (41 cards / 4 outs) that you'll hit your gutshot on the turn, and if you call $3 you make an $18 pot, for 6:1 odds. I thought you were only supposed to call with "odds" if you make more money than the chance to hit your hand.

[Hammered Burt 0]

How do you figure 5:1 is good?

You're giving 3 active players 5:1 on a draw-heavy board. I just can't possibly see the upside to this.

[ForKeeps 0]

I thought we were working from the assumption that my $3 pushed out the other two players and I was heads up with one person that was on some sort of draw.I think we just have a different style of play. I'm willing to risk a bit more to win some more, but I do expose myself to beats more than you I suppose.Arrrrrr.

[Hammered Burt 0]

I think we just have a different style of play. I'm willing to risk a bit more to win some more, but I do expose myself to beats more than you I suppose.

I think you hit the nail on the head. The way I see it, people are going to draw whether you give them the price or not, so you may as well not. If I have top 2 on that board I'm not looking to play a big, multi-way pot. I'm looking to take it down right there, or give someone a terrible price to call w/ the draw. I'm willing to risk more pre-flop, but I just don't see the reward of playing risky after the flop. And trust me, I expose myself to plenty of beats, 'cause as I said, they're gonna draw on you anyway...

[Abbaddabba 0]

2nd, how likely are you to hit your gutshot? Do I consistently want to let players have a pot-odds draw on me? Not so much to both. If you had a 4-5, I'm certainly going to pop the turn for $8-$12, and if you want to donk call with a gutshot, by all means meet me at the casino this weekend.

You're going to "pop" the turn for $12, and probably lose upwards of $40 if he makes such a well concealed draw. He's 10:1 to make his draw on the turn. He only has to win, on average, a $30 pot BY SHOWDOWN, to make this a profitable call.Do you fold to a minimum raise on the turn when an innocent deuce hits? Well, maybe you do, given the terribly tight fold on the flop. But it would be a horrible fold. He'd as soon be raising a worse two pair.

I think we just have a different style of play.

Yeah, but not in a good way.You folded for a $6 raise in a pot of nearly $35 with what is the best hand the vast majority of the time.Folding is definitely "different". And to make the fold, you probably have to be "special".

[TheSpartan 0]

If you're not willing to pay off a monster when you flop big, you'll never win at poker. BTW, if you're going to play AJ, you'll have to learn to play it. If you're out of position, check/reraise on the continuation bet and see what he does. Otherwise, don't even bother playing it to a preflop reraise unless you're playing against a donkey who raises with KT because it's suited.