bubble and big slick

[DwayneWayne 0]

so your blind to the bubble?

[bobbytheo3 0]

im not sure how to do what you guys to to reference the quote. sorry if its confusing. ill try to include it in my responses from now on. i am not blind to the bubble, i just take the same mentality as all the top pros do, which is that youll make more money long term by going out on the bubble sometimes but making more final tables than you will by always squaking in the money.

[holman3rd 0]

why would you not want to tempt someone to mess with you??? thats the whole idea, you want somone to mess with you at this point. you probly have the best hand. this is your chance to double up. if you raise 3xx, you are showing strength and its less likely you get all your money in with edge. i still dont mind that play though as ive said, but im looking to double up here, not take the blinds.

You are in middle position. If you limp and there are big stacks behind you, you are sure to get the action you want. Problem is, a big stack with any resemblance of a decent hand is probably going to call. When that happens, the SB is likely to come along and you're giving the BB a free ride.Suddenly, you have 2 or more opponents seeing a flop, and you only have a drawing hand. AK doesn't play well against many 0pponents. You have to limit the field here. Picking up the blinds is not so bad here.If anyone has a good hand (say a PP), well, now you've committed yourself to the pot as an underdog (you've already indicated that you'd call).

[holman3rd 0]

im not sure how to do what you guys to to reference the quote. sorry if its confusing. ill try to include it in my responses from now on. i am not blind to the bubble, i just take the same mentality as all the top pros do, which is that youll make more money long term by going out on the bubble sometimes but making more final tables than you will by always squaking in the money.

not a criticism, just a suggestion. click the orange "quote" button at the top-right of any post you want to reply to.as for top pros, can you cite some books, texts or other references. i can't imagine that a top pro would advocate limping in middle position in this spot. maybe to mix up your game, but only a very small % of the time.i agree about the making final tables comment, but that's referring to playing aggressively at the bubble when most players have tightened up. it doesn't mean you should get fancy with AK in middle position, at least not a large % of the time.

[bobbytheo3 0]

yeah, holman, good point. i see how against a few opponents your hand doesnt play as well, but if you comletely miss and someone shows strenght, you can still fold and have a playable stack. i think id push all-in sometimes in this case, especially if i have loose callers behind me, but i just wanted to bring up the limping idea as a good outside the box trap idea. so many other factors apply, but i was surprised at how quickly that idea was shot down as ridiculous, because i see it as a good way to get all your money in with the best hand by using a little deception.

[DwayneWayne 0]

i agree with both of your thoughts and the bubble versus teh final table agrument is a good one (long term)i'm gonna post about a tournament last night....i'm curious to see how you guys would have played it.

[holman3rd 0]

yeah, holman, good point. i see how against a few opponents your hand doesnt play as well, but if you comletely miss and someone shows strenght, you can still fold and have a playable stack. i think id push all-in sometimes in this case, especially if i have loose callers behind me, but i just wanted to bring up the limping idea as a good outside the box trap idea. so many other factors apply, but i was surprised at how quickly that idea was shot down as ridiculous, because i see it as a good way to get all your money in with the best hand by using a little deception.

Well, some people type before thinking...especially me sometimes!Harrington's book is one of the best out there on tournament play, IMO. Especially since he rarely advocates any one single line of play in any one situation. He usually talks about a few options, and then gives approx % as to how often you should try each. That said, he certainly points out what the best angle is the majority of the time.I think your trap idea is an example of a strategy that should be given consideration, but only a small % of the time (IMO).

[bobbytheo3 0]

[not a criticism, just a suggestion. click the orange "quote" button at the top-right of any post you want to reply to.as for top pros, can you cite some books, texts or other references. i can't imagine that a top pro would advocate limping in middle position in this spot. maybe to mix up your game, but only a very small % of the time.i agree about the making final tables comment, but that's referring to playing aggressively at the bubble when most players have tightened up. it doesn't mean you should get fancy with AK in middle position, at least not a large % of the time.

i didnt mean using top pros mentality when i said the limping idea speciifcally, i meant as far as their reluctance to attempt to squeak into the money. as for the limping idea, knowing your opponents behind you is huge. if any of them is agressive preflop, limping becomes more enticing a play, because there is a good chance they make a play on the pot with a weaker hand. if you dont expect a raise behind you from a late position player or the blinds, i say go all-in.

[holman3rd 0]

[not a criticism, just a suggestion. click the orange "quote" button at the top-right of any post you want to reply to.as for top pros, can you cite some books, texts or other references. i can't imagine that a top pro would advocate limping in middle position in this spot. maybe to mix up your game, but only a very small % of the time.i agree about the making final tables comment, but that's referring to playing aggressively at the bubble when most players have tightened up. it doesn't mean you should get fancy with AK in middle position, at least not a large % of the time.

i didnt mean using top pros mentality when i said the limping idea speciifcally, i meant as far as their reluctance to attempt to squeak into the money. as for the limping idea, knowing your opponents behind you is huge. if any of them is agressive preflop, limping becomes more enticing a play, because there is a good chance they make a play on the pot with a weaker hand. if you dont expect a raise behind you from a late position player or the blinds, i say go all-in.

Now we're getting on the same page. And against "thinking" opponents, you may want to try a little trickery, but rarely (IMO).

[bobbytheo3 0]

yeah, holman, i should definitely check out harringtons book then. i like the idea of varying your play. my whole game revloves around deception. i like my opponents to never feel they have a read on me. the problem is, that doesnt work on the internet very well. people just dont pay attention. which is the reason i rarely ever play internet poker. in live home games and casino tournaments though, its much easier to portray the table image that you want.....dwayne, fire away with your other situation. these discussions are fun and im learning things.

[DwayneWayne 0]

the more i play the more i learn that the internet and live might as well be two different games...the new post is up...gracias...

[holman3rd 0]

the more i play the more i learn that the internet and live might as well be two different games...the new post is up...gracias...

I like both. Internet play enables me to play thousands of hands in a short period of time. It really helps my card reading skills, which, on the net, is limited to betting patterns. I have a long way to go, but it's really helping me hone my skills in this area. For me, repetition is key.I can then apply these skills to live play, and overlay and reads I may pick up from visual ques.Still, I prefer live play, something about physically handling cards and chips and interacting with other players...