where to draw the line?

[uahphysics 0]

Alright, I'm probably going to get flamed for being an idiot, but I just wanted to know. Where do you draw the line between calling becasue of pot odds and folding because of your read on the other player? This question may not even make any sense, but I just wanted to throw it out there.

[Kendren 1]

Alright, I'm probably going to get flamed for being an idiot, but I just wanted to know. Where do you draw the line between calling becasue of pot odds and folding because of your read on the other player? This question may not even make any sense, but I just wanted to throw it out there.

Makes sense to me. All comes down to, IMHO, how much you trust your gut. Your read screams fold, to me, lay it down. More chances will come, screw pot odds. Some might disagree, especially the more analytical among us, but that's my take.

[TylerMayes 0]

One thing to consider is this. Calculate the odds after determining a read. Another thing more advanced players do is try to associate a % of accuracy. Calling on the end is a good example. Opponent bets representing hand X. If you feel that he may bluff in this situation 20% of the time then if you are getting 1 to 4 or more on your call then make the call. Another situation occurs when you put them on a certain hand. Say you have 53s in the BB and it gets raised by the button but you know all 8 people will call as the game is loose you call and flop two pair. Checks to the button who bets you raise. Folds around to button whom calls. Turn brings an Ace. You know that guy will only raise preflop with AA, KK or AK. You bet and he raises you. Now you have to consider the odds even though there is a good chance he has Aces. With one ace out you have 3 un accounted for. That means 3 ways to AA, no kings are exposed, whcih means 6 ways to KK and 12 ways to AK (4 kings x 3 aces). Total combinatins 21You know he will only play this way with one of those 3 hands. you figure the only hand that beats you is AA so you have 3 to 18 or 1 to 6. If you are getting 1 to 6 or better to call his raise you should. Don't forget also that you have 4 outs to improve as well. Odds are not just used when determing how to play a draw.Cheers,Tyler

[uahphysics 0]

Tyler, thanks so much for that answer, it was a great answer and helped me out a lot

[KDawgCometh 2]

Alright, I'm probably going to get flamed for being an idiot, but I just wanted to know. Where do you draw the line between calling becasue of pot odds and folding because of your read on the other player? This question may not even make any sense, but I just wanted to throw it out there.

I'm kinda sad that there have been people flaming people for a question like this to make yo hesitant, that being said I'll do my best to help you out, this is a very smart question.You need to usually go with your read, when you start second guessing yourself, guess what your wrong. Most players get themsleves into trouble when they second guess themselves. Once yo feel you have your read then calulate the odds of A. whether your actually ahead B. if you are behind how many wins you need( or if there might be a possible chop on the board, it can be better to split the pot than give up a chop to anothe player, this is really only in rare cases but can make a difference). C. How many of your possible wins might be shared by this person or can flush or straighten them up. Once you've thought of these possibilities you then can decide what is the correct action. One thing to really remember is that if you really are borderline between folding or calling I really feel that folding is the best option and just move ontohe next hand

[TylerMayes 0]

Alright' date=' I'm probably going to get flamed for being an idiot, but I just wanted to know. Where do you draw the line between calling becasue of pot odds and folding because of your read on the other player? This question may not even make any sense, but I just wanted to throw it out there.[/quote']I'm kinda sad that there have been people flaming people for a question like this to make yo hesitant, that being said I'll do my best to help you out, this is a very smart question.You need to usually go with your read, when you start second guessing yourself, guess what your wrong. Most players get themsleves into trouble when they second guess themselves. Once yo feel you have your read then calulate the odds of A. whether your actually ahead B. if you are behind how many wins you need( or if there might be a possible chop on the board, it can be better to split the pot than give up a chop to anothe player, this is really only in rare cases but can make a difference). C. How many of your possible wins might be shared by this person or can flush or straighten them up. Once you've thought of these possibilities you then can decide what is the correct action. One thing to really remember is that if you really are borderline between folding or calling I really feel that folding is the best option and just move ontohe next hand

Calling is a better option if the pot is like 8 to 10 BB me thinks...if it has 10 BB you only have to be right like 8-9% of the time to show a profit.

Tyler, thanks so much for that answer, it was a great answer and helped me out a lot

Remember to deermine your %'s before odds....especially at first. You don't wnat to be like well i'm getting 1 to 3...then be like well he is probably bluffing 25% in this spot...because it will make you call too liberally and start a bad habit of bad judement.

[Awful 0]

Also, don't forget to properly count outs based on your read and your opponent's redraws. Remember that if he has a set, 1 or 2 flush cards are dead due to filling him up. If you have a straight draw and someone else in the pot is drawing to a flush, you lose outs of that suit they're drawing to. So in those cases, reads are important to proper pot odds analysis.Also, noone will flame you for asking a question. While I was in the flaming crowd last night, I hope that that ugliness isn't connected to attempts to discuss poker here. Questions are good, discussion is good, we all respect that; don't get our negative responses to people for behavior outside of talking poker keep you from opening up and discussing things here.

[Aburame Shino 0]

When I first sit down to play a game, I go with math for the first 5 or 6 hands. That way I can get a feel for the players and how the cards are falling. After that, I play hands with about 70% math and 30% opponent reads. It works in my home games pretty well, but doesn't work so well online (which is why I don't play for cash online).

[PA32R 0]

When I first sit down to play a game, I go with math for the first 5 or 6 hands. That way I can get a feel for the players and how the cards are falling. After that, I play hands with about 70% math and 30% opponent reads. It works in my home games pretty well, but doesn't work so well online (which is why I don't play for cash online).

Huh? How the cards are falling?? What does that mean? I'm hoping you aren't saying that seeing what cards have fallen previously gives you any clue as to how they will fall in the future, even the short-term future. Come to think of it, if you're going to be at my table, I hope that is what you're saying.

[MrConceit 0]

When I first sit down to play a game, I go with math for the first 5 or 6 hands. That way I can get a feel for the players and how the cards are falling. After that, I play hands with about 70% math and 30% opponent reads. It works in my home games pretty well, but doesn't work so well online (which is why I don't play for cash online).

Huh? How the cards are falling?? What does that mean? I'm hoping you aren't saying that seeing what cards have fallen previously gives you any clue as to how they will fall in the future, even the short-term future. Come to think of it, if you're going to be at my table, I hope that is what you're saying.

Laugh, I imagine the "how the cards are falling" is just a saying. It sounded just like he said he took 5-6 hands to observe players and start getting reads. But if you were right and he determines his "luck ratio" for the night by how the cards are falling -- then sorry, you were right to mock. I just doubt that was the case.Oh and to Tyler, your post was quite quite good, but your final thing about having 4 outs doesn't apply if you had a rock solid read that he had AA and turned top set. Because any of your 4 outs fills him to a higher boat. Minor issue but thought I'd say it since I was already posting.

[PA32R 0]

When I first sit down to play a game, I go with math for the first 5 or 6 hands. That way I can get a feel for the players and how the cards are falling. After that, I play hands with about 70% math and 30% opponent reads. It works in my home games pretty well, but doesn't work so well online (which is why I don't play for cash online).

Huh? How the cards are falling?? What does that mean? I'm hoping you aren't saying that seeing what cards have fallen previously gives you any clue as to how they will fall in the future, even the short-term future. Come to think of it, if you're going to be at my table, I hope that is what you're saying.

Laugh, I imagine the "how the cards are falling" is just a saying. It sounded just like he said he took 5-6 hands to observe players and start getting reads. But if you were right and he determines his "luck ratio" for the night by how the cards are falling -- then sorry, you were right to mock. I just doubt that was the case.Oh and to Tyler, your post was quite quite good, but your final thing about having 4 outs doesn't apply if you had a rock solid read that he had AA and turned top set. Because any of your 4 outs fills him to a higher boat. Minor issue but thought I'd say it since I was already posting.

You're right, he may very well be describing the process of watching to see what cards are shown down and combining that with the betting history to get his reads. I didn't think of it that way on my first reading of his post. Many people have the idea of the cards "running hot" or "running cold." Of course the cards do run hot and cold, but only in the past. Anyway, on first reading, that's what I thought he meant but he very well may not have. If not, my apologies.

[JFarrell20 1]

This isn't a stupid question at all. This is basically the enigma that is limit poker.You need to find the line yourself. It all comes down to the action of the players at your table, as well as your gut feeling, as well as your odds. I mean there are times when you just know you are beat. (four-flush on the board in a multi-way pot, etc.) Pot odds may dictate a call but you have to lay down if you don't have the flush. Obviously it's not always this cut-and-dry. If the pot is huge, you may call a bet on the end even if you think you are beat. This will prevent you from developing an ulcer when you fold for 1 Big Bet and the winner shows Jack high, and you laid down middle pair.Good luck. BTW, my best friend played soccer for UAH a couple years ago.