advice on this hand welcomed...

[Herr Baader 0]

Thanks in advance...Setup: after 69 hands, MP2 has been shown as TPP (VS$IP 19%, PF raise 1.6 %, AF 1), and BB has been a maniac, LAA (VS$IP 76%, PF raise 20.4 %, AF 2). I'm UTG +1 (At this level, I get shown as TPA (VS$IP 16%, PF raise 4.2%, AF 2.43).PokerRoom No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx ($200)CO ($162)Button ($192.20)SB ($532.20)BB ($137.60)UTG ($134.20)EnidColeslaw ($194) KdKhUTG+2 ($18.50)MP1 ($203)MP2 ($141.80)Preflop: is with , . posts a blind of $2. 1 fold, BB calls $6.Flop: ($35) [9c], [7h], [Th] (4 players)BB bets $10, MP2 calls $40, CO folds, BB calls $30.Turn: ($155) [3c] (3 players)BB checks, EnidColeslaw . . .What's your next move?

[TeeSludge 0]

It might be just really early for me but are your hole cards missing from the convertor?

[Sea Wasp 0]

Ya, kinda hard to say without knowing what you are holding but i'll give it a try.If you have an over pair you push and hope he calls you with his pair and draw. A guy like this could have any pair, draw or combination of both here so cant be subtle if you have a hand.If you have 2 overs and made a play at the pot with your flop raise then it is a little more complicated. Sounds like the guy will call you down with any holding on this kind of board so you may have to give it up.

[Herr Baader 0]

Oops! Sorry, I should've proof-read better -- my first try and the hand converter. I edited it -- I did indeed hold an over pair: KhKd. Now on w the show...

[iggymcfly 0]

At this point, you've decided to play the hand strongly. The only move on the turn is all-in.Checking would be silly after making a big raise like that and getting a blank on the turn, and all betting less would do is alert them to your hand and give them a price to draw. If you go all-in, there's a better chance that they'll put you on a bluff or a semibluff, and if they do decide to draw against you, they won't be getting very good odds to do so.

[goose 0]

not a fun spot to be in. You might be up against an A-10 against the BB but MP2 could very well have 77 or 99 and is letting you hang yourself, while bringing some dead money (BB) along for the ride. I'd slow down on this one and see what happens with MP2 - his stats aren't showing that he's calling your raises with JJ or QQ. I think you're behind.

[swass 0]

Hmm. Nice post. At first I thought you were behind. The flop call from MP is extremely scary. I don't know if I just talked myself into it or not, but I think you need to push here.BB may have caught a peice of that flop with a pair, or be on a draw. I think you are ahead of him b/c with his aggressiveness he may have reraised you.What could MP have called you pf with? Personally I don't think I would do this with 99 or 77. Even AT seems too loose for him. My bet is an overpair. If he holds JJ he has an overpair and a gutshot. I could see him making that flop call. If my read is correct you need to push this turn and realy make both players pay. If he hit a set on you and it milking it, good for him.So what were the results?

[goose 0]

if he's a decent player he could easily have one of those two. I've made a lot of money playing mid-low pairs and sending people who can't let go of high pockets to the cleaners when I hit my set. The implied odds of mid-low pockets in moderately deep stacked games can be very high. A lot of times it's a full doulbe up because if the other guy's got AA and the flop comes J63 and you've got 66 and push all in, he's going to be calling you nearly everytime.

[swass 0]

I can see the merits of that. I will occaisionally call small raises with these PPs for the same reason, it just gets riskier with a lot of players left to act behind you.Im not sure if MPs stats show this or not, but wouldn't this be a little loose for this player in this case?

[Herr Baader 0]

I'll go ahead and post the results since I've gotten arguments from both sides that each seem well reasoned. So I honestly don't know what I'll do if the situation arises again, but this time I pushed. It had completely surprised me when BOTH players called my large reraise, and yes, I was more worried about MP1, as he was the tighter, more able player. My reasons for pushing were:1. I put BB on a draw, as it was the kind of hand he seemed to love to play. Maybe even a huge draw like Ah8h, but if so I wanted him to pay for it.2. MP2 was trickier to pinpoint. I agree that he probably didn't have A10 as that would've been a bit loose a preflop call for him, and even if he HAD A10 I don't think he would have called my big reraise on the flop, which screamed overcards. But if he had a set, wouldn't he raise to drive out BB's draw?3. I didn't think I could check and give a free card to either of them, esp. as BB would take the betting intiative no matter what he held. And as for a mid-sized bet, anything big enough to push them out would likely pot commit me anyway. Anyway, I pushed another $148 (I think) into the $155 pot, MP2 called instantly and BB folded. MP2 had 99, river comes a 10.I posted this bc I'd recently moved up a level and although I was doing fair for the most part, I've lost a number of huge pots (huge for me, this is the biggest pot I've ever lost) when my KK or AA has run into a set and I overplay it.I play SnGs mainly, and so don't have a lot of confidence in my cash game as I tend to play more $$-scared, which includes sometimes betting too aggressively bc I'm afraid of getting drawn out on. Anyway, thanks for the smart responses.Actually, two questions:Iggy: You say that I've "decided to play it strongly." This is true, but what might another viable approach be on the turn that might have saved me my roll in the end?Goose: You were spot on with this one (you're just the kind of bastard I keep giving all my $$ to ':doh:' ). You say you would "slow down" on this one. How do you mean? Say I check it to him on the turn, and he puts in, say, a half-pot sized bet of $75 - what do you do at this point? Can you lay them down? Just call? If you call can you get away from calling your last $75 on the river? If you were the guy with the set would you just call like he did or would you raise my flop raise?I'm okay if this is just the kind of hand you're just destined to lose a lot of $$ on (if not your entire buy-in), but if there are ways of avoiding this, I'd really like to plug this apparent leak.

[goose 0]

Goose: You were spot on with this one (you're just the kind of censored I keep giving all my $$ to ':doh:' ). You say you would "slow down" on this one. How do you mean? Say I check it to him on the turn, and he puts in, say, a half-pot sized bet of $75 - what do you do at this point? Can you lay them down? Just call? If you call can you get away from calling your last $75 on the river? If you were the guy with the set would you just call like he did or would you raise my flop raise?I'm okay if this is just the kind of hand you're just destined to lose a lot of $$ on (if not your entire buy-in), but if there are ways of avoiding this, I'd really like to plug this apparent leak.

One solution is to raise your high pockets harder pre-flop from early position, and hope to get action from one other big hand that might be lurking (i.e. AK, QQ, JJ, AQs), and if not just scoop the blinds. This works especially well if you haven't established a table image yet, or even better if you've just sat down - you're much more likely to get a call... and if you get re-raised, just push.The flop bet is fine, considering there are some possibl QK, QJ, KJ and flush etc. type draws out there. Like I said earlier, with MP2's stats alarm bells are sounding when he just flat out calls the >pot sized raise. As you're out of position here the main goal is not to put your stack in jeopardy with a possible set lurking (never give the BB credit for a set with his stats and coming out of the blinds btw, I'll pay him off everytime if he has 77 or 99).It's a rough spot on the turn, because you're not 100% sure if he's got the set or not, although it seems likely. He could have something like a straight/flush draw although it's not overly likely (QhJh for example) or an AhQh, and you hate to give a free card away, but I would in this instance. If you check and he bets I'd probably be folding this (50% because of his play and 50% because of his stats). I don't mind the BB seeing a free river card if MP2 does check behind because he's probably only drawing to 5 outs here (two to make a set and three to pair his kicker), and protetcing your hand from him probably isn't worth the risk of MP2 slamming you. You also might get the added benefit of the BB bluffing at the pot because of the two checks.It's definately a tricky situation, because there are a lot of idiots at $1/$2 who'll play something like JJ A10 or even A9s from MP2 like the villain here, but those stats of his are not encouraging. Oh and if he did bet out $75 on the turn and you don't think he's got it then just push all-in, don't call him and give him another card. There's a better chance the river'll improve him over you, you've only got two improvement outs, and if he does push regardless of the card it's damn near impossible to get away from.

[Royal_Tour 0]

Raise more preflop.bet the pot on the flop. If you get called, slow down on the turn

[iggymcfly 0]

If it was me, I would have only raised to 30 on the flop so that you can get some action from top pair or a low overpair, and not put yourself in a position where making the same bet on the turn and river will put your whole stack in.Then, when you get two callers on the turn, if you're worried you can bet 30 on the turn and possibly fold to a raise, and if you just get called and still feel like you're being trapped, you can check the river. The thing is that by putting a third of your stack in on the flop, you're basically committing yourself to a hand where you're only likely to get called if someone has a good draw to beat you or else you're beat already.

[TJ_Eckleburg 0]

I cheated and read replies and results, so my advice is tainted. Don't post results so early! Truthfully, though, everything I'm about to say is what I was GOING to write anyway... I just wanted to read what other people were thinking here.I don't think "raising more preflop" is an easy solution. There's not much reason to raise more than 4x from early position. It's already a pot overbet. 4x with premium hands is fine. If you're getting called a lot form early position... THEN raise more.On the flop you should be thinking "this isn't a great flop for my hand." Yes, you have an overpair, but I'm especially worried about the board coordination and the two hearts.That having been said, the only way to play it (I think) is a pot overbet raise on the flop (which is exactly what you did). For the call/call, I'm putting at least one on a flush draw and the other on something sneaky, or pair + draw (T8s maybe), or maybe set.On the turn, honestly... I'm slowing down. The only bet you could make to protect your hand is all in. Any other bet isn't strong enough to do anything... but I don't want to push all in into someone DEFINITELY on hearts and someone else on ... something else. I can't put him on EXACTLY a set from your reads... but something's up. Nailing two pair with a connector, possible flopped straight, a bunch of nasty stuff that's ahead of us is out there.I'm checking the turn, to see the river. If a heart hits, I'm gone for a bet... and if one of them comes out firing a huge bet on a bricked river, I'm not going broke on KK.The hardest thing in the world about no limit is playing one pair effectively.

[Herr Baader 0]

Thanks to all for the depth and breadth or your responses. They've helped immensely; sometimes contradictory responses are even more helpful than when they are all in agreement, if only bc it deepens the whole thought process and lends more weight to the intensely situational nature of the game. This forum is a great resource.a.