an out-of-position no limit hand in detail

[jayistheman 0]

well..checkraising the flop could be seen as a semibluff... and if i have AK or AA in this spot, and i think someone is semibluffing me....... well ill have to put the hammer down. i don't know about him though. most players wait til the turn to wake up with strength, so it just might scare him into submission.either way... i think you may suffer from FPS to a degree. probably due to the fact that you play those out of hand live games up there im smart kid land. sometimes you could make an easier buck by playing a more straight up style, but to each his own. you promote short stach strategy out of a disdain for giant decisions (we all hate them), but i feel that your deep stacked NL strat may create many more than necessary.

[KDawgCometh 2]

this is a joke right, cause that has to be the answer here. THERE IS NO FUCKING RATIONAL REASON TO NOT RAISE QQ PF. If you try to give some sort of reason, I might just have to find a way to put you in the nut house, seriously. this is one of the fishiest lines that I have ever seen. at no point do you raise with one of the best hands you can get, are you dumb, or just stupid. If you aren't raising this PF, then you need to CR this post flop. THis hand is a raise regardless of stack size, and regardless of position in NL with no one in, or no raises in ahead of you. good job playing this hand about as poorly as possible

[akishore 0]

Are you gaining any visibility?I think that ranks up there 2nd to position.But, then again, I write short posts

against this player, i gain more visibility with postflop betting than i do with preflop betting.aseem

[jayistheman 0]

kdawg... do we need a joint??chill dude. :-)

[screech 0]

if you mean a checkraise on the flop, i think i like this a lot.

I meant the flop.The earlier you find out where you are, the cheaper it will be if you're behind. If he's bluffing, you'll win that extra bet he puts in on the turn, but your risk reward ratio has gone down.

[akishore 0]

this is a joke right, cause that has to be the answer here. THERE IS NO censored RATIONAL REASON TO NOT RAISE QQ PF. If you try to give some sort of reason, I might just have to find a way to put you in the nut house, seriously.  this is one of the fishiest lines that I have ever seen. at no point do you raise with one of the best hands you can get, are you dumb, or just stupid. If you aren't raising this PF, then you need to CR this post flop. THis hand is a raise regardless of stack size, and regardless of position in NL with no one in, or no raises in ahead of you. good job playing this hand about as poorly as possible

lol.thanks.aseem

[akishore 0]

Love the WA/WB showing up again.

by the way, you'll notice i never used this in the absolute sense. i said the hand has become *more* wa/wb.every hand has elements of wa/wb, but sometimes those elements aren't prominent enough to justify certain actions.the board pairing did make this hand more wa/wb.aseem

[KDawgCometh 2]

kdawg... do we need a joint??chill dude.  :-)

I'm completely calm, this is one of the most retarded hands I've ever seen, and for someone who tries to profess themselves as a good poker player, it just boggles me to no end

[jayistheman 0]

i disagree with the way he played it as well...but i explained that above.

[Actuary 3]

please tell me he had 89 Yuo might have gained visibility by betting post flop, I"ll agree with that. :roll:

[akishore 0]

if you mean a checkraise on the flop, i think i like this a lot.

I meant the flop.The earlier you find out where you are, the cheaper it will be if you're behind. If he's bluffing, you'll win that extra bet he puts in on the turn, but your risk reward ratio has gone down.

so you're implying that i fold to a reraise?that's one of my reasons for not being sure if the flop is best--this information is reliable much less often than it is on the turn.it's cheaper to checkraise the flop, agreed, but it's also a lot more "predictable" in a sense. this means a lot of players will "call my bluff" so to speak, and--especially this specific player with his profile--will reraise hands that i am ahead of.aseem

[akishore 0]

please tell me he had 89    Yuo might have gained visibility by betting post flop, I"ll agree with that. :roll:

no, he didn't.and actuary, i have admitted i misplayed this hand postflop. i only said that i believe visibility is better gained through postflop betting than preflop betting, which means i should have checkraised somewhere postflop but not necessarily raised preflop.that's the point, yet i didn't checkraise and i didn't gain visibility. that's where my mistake is. why the sarcasm?aseem

[akishore 0]

kdawg... do we need a joint??chill dude.  :-)

I'm completely calm, this is one of the most retarded hands I've ever seen, and for someone who tries to profess themselves as a good poker player, it just boggles me to no end

keith,this is not meant as a belittling or condescending question in the least, but i am curious how much experience you have in no limit hold 'em, specifically with medium or deep stacks.aseem

[TJ_Eckleburg 0]

I need to chew on your reasons for limping... but I think IF you're going to limp, you need to check-raise at some point with the intention of folding if he calls OR plays back at you.

[Actuary 3]

I'm completely calm, this is one of the most retarded hands I've ever seen, and for someone who tries to profess themselves as a good poker player, it just boggles me to no end

It's the defense of it that boggles me even moreCall me crazy..but if you play it this way Preflop... bet hard any non-Ace flop. And take your chances.What if flop came 2,5,9 and he makes the same bet..you going to call him down fearing 55 ?This hand makes me think you are out of your league.I still reserve some hope that this is a mirage.ps: Edit: ok..I know..you are not defending the post flop play.Why start the thread then?oh.. and the sarcasm comes from hating my job.And YSAP :wink:

[jayistheman 0]

i still say not raising this pre flop is FPS and causing wayyyy too many marginal decisions postflop.the hand becomes much more clear cut, and that has to be +ev.

[akishore 0]

I need to chew on your reasons for limping... but I think IF you're going to limp, you need to check-raise at some point with the intention of folding if he calls OR plays back at you.

i agree that i should have checkraises somewhere?but check/fold if he calls?? why...?aseem

[akishore 0]

What if flop came 2,5,9 and he makes the same bet..you going to call him down fearing 55 ?

no.

This hand makes me think you are out of your league.I still reserve some hope that this is a mirage.

ok.aseem

[akishore 0]

i still say not raising this pre flop is FPS and causing wayyyy too many marginal decisions postflop.the hand becomes much more clear cut, and that has to be +ev.

not sure how you came to this conclusion.and actually, your first statement is wrong--this hand is just the exception. normally, limping makes my postflop decisions more clear-cut than raising does, when the stacks are deep.again, this hand is somewhat of an exception because not only where the decisions not as clear cut, but the stacks also weren't quite deep *enough*.aseem

[TJ_Eckleburg 0]

it's cheaper to checkraise the flop, agreed, but it's also a lot more "predictable" in a sense. this means a lot of players will "call my bluff" so to speak, and--especially this specific player with his profile--will reraise hands that i am ahead of.

Who re-raises an EP limper who checkraised.... with only a semi-bluff or 2nd pair?I can't see a lot of hands that re-raise your check-raise that you're ahead of, unless this guy is a complete and total psycho.In which case you'll make more money off of him playing straight up... like by raising premium hands preflop.

[jayistheman 0]

and actually, your first statement is wrong--this hand is just the exception. normally, limping makes my postflop decisions more clear-cut than raising does, when the stacks are deep. ill agree to this for pairs up to TT and even JJ. but QQ is just too strong for any postflop decision to be clear cut after limping.again, this hand is somewhat of an exception because not only where the decisions not as clear cut, but the stacks also weren't quite deep *enough*. explain this a little more, please.[/b]

[KDawgCometh 2]

kdawg... do we need a joint??chill dude.  :-)

I'm completely calm, this is one of the most retarded hands I've ever seen, and for someone who tries to profess themselves as a good poker player, it just boggles me to no end

keith,this is not meant as a belittling or condescending question in the least, but i am curious how much experience you have in no limit hold 'em, specifically with medium or deep stacks.aseem

I used to only play NL. I won at 5/10 NL live in AC, what

[akishore 0]

Who re-raises an EP limper who checkraised.... with only a semi-bluff or 2nd pair?I can't see a lot of hands that re-raise your check-raise that you're ahead of, unless this guy is a complete and total psycho.

this guy plays 56% of his hands and raises 31% of them, TJ.you are talking as if this guy is a textbook ABC player who takes my EP limp into consideration in the least bit.fwiw, i would bet money that there is a good chance he would reraise with worse hands on this flop if i checkraised. he was clearly a very aggressive player.

In which case you'll make more money off of him playing straight up... like by raising premium hands preflop.

which means i'd need to sit to his left so that i could raise to isolate and be in position.but i wasn't.which means raising doesn't necessarily get me heads-up with him, and even then, i'm out of position.aseem

[akishore 0]

I used to only play NL. I won at 5/10 NL live in AC, what

lol, what's with the "what" at the end of your post. you think i'm calling you out and measuring dicks with you or something? i was curious as to your experience and simply asked.thanks for sharing.what was your style?aseem

[KDawgCometh 2]

I used to only play NL. I won at 5/10 NL live in AC, what

lol, what's with the "what" at the end of your post. you think i'm calling you out and measuring censored with you or something? i was curious as to your experience and simply asked.thanks for sharing.what was your style?aseem

my style here is completely irrelevant to this hand, as only the callingstation/obscenely weak style doesn't raise this PF, or find a raise anywhere